The nerve of Jon Ronson

[RoyalCorgi]

Jon Ronson has an interview in the Sunday Times (sorry, no share token) about why the culture wars will soon burn out:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jon-ronson-interview-the-culture-wars-will-burn-out-soon-8gsj9wrj0

This is a man who failed to stand up for women who were being bullied on social media and being banned from Twitter for standing up for women's rights. He fell out with Graham Linehan over Linehan's support for women's sex-based rights. Far from being a dispassionate observer of the culture wars, he has actively chosen a side - the wrong side.

This could go one of two ways....

Just switched radio off because he came on! Can't bear to listen to him. I've always found him quite affected, and his latest wokery is the final straw.

Rebecca Walker is a third wave feminist

Gloria Steinem is godmother

The question being posed is how a mixed race woman can navigated between the separate worlds that have fed into her identity. This will then lead in to the trans issue.

JKR s tweet has been well timed with this.

🎻

Anyone else rolling their eyes at Nancy’s story?

My tiny violin broke its string.

Has Ron spoken to trans women that agree with women that they're not women??

At least Nancy recognises penises women among women isn't appropriate.

The key outrage of this programme is Nancy Burkholder being told to leave Michfest and then campaigning with third wave feminists against the festival being a women's single sex space.

It turns out that Nancy Burkholder left the campaign when it changed into pushing for pre-op trans people to be permitted to attend the festival.

Has Ron spoken to trans women that agree with women that they're not women??

No. Resistance to racism led to third wave feminism, third wave feminism led to trans inclusion, and now we have the culture war. That's it. I know it's only 30 minutes but this is the most one dimensional fragmentary treatment you could imagine.

It's a program about where the term terf came from.

Well at least the term is trending for exactly the reasons michfest had issues with.

Glossed over rather a lot there Jon.

Women's sport?

Children's health?

Women's prison?

Sex v gender debate?

Why all the death threats to women?

He really should have signed off with:

"So remember women, this is why you need to be kind."

I'm shocked by the Michfest story. Literally nothing women have is sacred.

Isn't Robson obsessed with porn?

There's a whole chapter on him visiting a porn set in one of his books (might even be So You've Been Publicly Shamed) and he did a podcast about a porn star who died.

All in the guise of "journalism" of course.

@MissMinutes24

Isn't Robson obsessed with porn?

There's a whole chapter on him visiting a porn set in one of his books (might even be So You've Been Publicly Shamed) and he did a podcast about a porn star who died.

All in the guise of "journalism" of course.

I think it's a bit unfair to say he's obsessed. He's definitely interested in the culture of the industry but I don't think if you listened to his podcasts on it you'd reckon he thinks it's a happy, healthy place.

The series on the rise of free internet porn via the "Tubes" (YouPorn, PornHub etc) and the knock on effect of that on the industry and wider society was really interesting. From teens with erectile dysfunction to young women sliding down the porn star ladder to more and more extreme acts as they "age out" of mainstream.

That episode was a bit meh. There was some interesting stuff in it, and if I didn't know anything about it it i would have found it v interesting. But it was shallow and I still don't think ronson understands this well.

Negatives were:
Both sides!
No explanation of why some ppl want to change the gra, and why others strongly object, ie the implications.
Nancy's story summed up the shift from transsexual to trans gender and self id. But that wasn't explained or contextualised. Ronson assumed that the 'pre op transsexual women' were only pre op because they couldn't afford it, rather than the broadening of what trans means. The listener is still missing that important context to the whole culture war.
No interview with a 'terf' or did I miss that?

Positives were:
Placing it in the history of the waves of feminism.
The word "terf" being taken on as an insult and showing the aggression.
Quite a clear explanation of the proposed change to the gra, (but narrow.)

Could have been worse. Could have been better.

@WarriorN

Glossed over rather a lot there Jon.

Women's sport?

Children's health?

Women's prison?

Sex v gender debate?

Why all the death threats to women?

Glinner did a funny "reverse bingo card" a few days ago about all the things Ronson wouldn't mention on his radio programme. You've pretty much nailed it there.

The episode ''Many different stories'' did not properly debate the issues at all, even in the limitations given by the narrative structure.
It was a complete cop-out and given Ronson is a journalist, he has balked at doing a proper deep dive.
Instead it acted as a history 101 with half of it being spent on explaining intersectional feminism, before concentrating on Nancy Jean Burkholder's experience at the Michigan Womyn's festival in 1991. Nancy herself then becoming isolated from Camp Trans for agreeing penises were triggering and being accused of privilege by pre-op transwomen for having been able to afford bottom surgery.
It ends in Nancy watching from the sides: she knows only what it is like to be her. Having stated she does not claim to know how women feel, she goes on to say her psyche is expressed in the female role.
No discussion of what said definition means. No discussion on sports, jails, hostels, massage/waxing, transgender umbrella encompassing everything now, or any kind of statistics on either side of the debate. Just a pithy summary sentence of bigots versus predators to sum up.
I thought in the trailer that Germaine Greer was used.
Jon Ronson has blocked the person, who tweeted him the bingo card
nor replied to the criticism that he shirked addressing why anyone might have any concerns about self ID.

I was a bit scared to listen in case transwomen=lovely, women=evil. It wasn't quite that bad, but I think anyone who wasn't informed about the issue as it is now would be quite confused. The cited origins seem to have little connection to what's going on now in the UK. It was a bit meh (as the young folk used to say a few years ago)....

No mention of the murder of one of Michfest founders , along with her partner and son - by a trans 'woman'. Glinner 1. Ronson 0.

I assume that the Dana Rivers case could not be mentioned as it is ongoing: the next hearing is allegedly this Thursday 16th.
Dana Rivers (formerly David Chester Warfield) is accused of killing
Patricia & Charlotte Reed by multiple stab wounds and bullets and shooting their son Benny, 19. Rivers was allegedly found blood-soaked and armed with multiple blades, metal knuckles and firearms. They are also accused of attempted arson.
Rivers/Warfield had a history of protesting the Michigan Women’s Music Festival (MWMF) as part of “Camp Trans”. The lesbian victims are reported to have been regular attendees of MWMF for many years.
(all the above posted with links by green myrtle on reddit)
Five years since the murders took place. As a new doctor's report is mentioned, I assume there are psych evaluations ongoing?

Jon Ronson's twitter feed is disappointing - I have lost respect for the man, which is a shame, as I have all his books.
I know he suffers from anxiety but some of the comments and questions he has been asked were fair and phrased politely - no hint of aggression. No longer there. Either his ego is fragile, his anxiety extends to any debate on the topic whatsoever or he just hates having his journalistic integrity/intent called into question. The most balanced criticisms gone. He did use Germaine Greer in his trailer too, so happy to trade off her. His aim to find the 'origin story' limits the episode intentionally.
Someone wrote that they wished there could be a whole series on the trans issue alone, Ronson replied, ''Well, I won't be the one making it.''