Margaret Atwood

[MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

twitter.com/MargaretAtwood/status/1450429768067846145?t=8q-A8MlvzZsx6pt4Vu1_LA&s=19

Has retweeted an article from the Toronto Star "why can't we say woman anymore" and bloody hell are they coming for the latest witch burning in the comments!

Ranging from disappointment to the usual sweary abuse. I thought oh how long till the capitulation begins, turns out I didn't have to wait long!

She's following it up with retweets about 'we can say people when it's accurate and inclusive' and then defending the article because the writer isn't "a terf"???

Not really sure what she's trying to achieve here, anyone?

Vice, your mistake there is looking for logic. This movement only works if you studiously avoid reasoned, logical thinking.

This.

I'm worried for her tbh. I hope she has good people around her in real life. She should probably just leave twitter for a little while and regroup. I hope she has someone around who can give her that advice.

She's in academia in Canada-Land. Unfortunately, she's probably going to get the same treatment from almost all the people she knows in real life as well. Best hope would be if she has a way of spending time with some family relatives who are "not into" the trans controversy either way.

Pity she can't come to the UK.

@applechips

Have I accidentally wandered into some sort of weird nightmare ? The woman who wrote The Handmaids Tale has endorsed a book by a person who tweeted “enjoy your erasure” in response to women’s concerns about being able to access single sex spaces ??

What the fuck ??

Yeah, I have to say this surprised me. I'd have thought reading that book would make anyone with half a brain question genderism.

Even reading the damn book made me think- imagine writing it and knowing less 40 years later

@applechips

Have I accidentally wandered into some sort of weird nightmare ? The woman who wrote The Handmaids Tale has endorsed a book by a person who tweeted “enjoy your erasure” in response to women’s concerns about being able to access single sex spaces ??

What the fuck ??

I'm sure I remember reading an article years ago where she was making weird statements about how some types of feminism are about hating men or dominating men. So she's always been willing to buy into MRA narratives, and unwilling to actually engage with what other feminists actually want.

You know what, I'm not even surprised or disappointed, just tired. What a dick move Margaret.

@Vanishun

You know what, I'm not even surprised or disappointed, just tired. What a dick move Margaret.

Yeah, throwing other women under the bus again in a futile attempt to save your own skin really isn't a good look.

"I'm not the witch! Try Goody Maya next door!"

It's to be expected though. Firstly she won't be reading everything we read, she won't know about a lot of the issues. She's in a culture with the strongest pressure to not step out of line.

She's basically living in a 1984 version of Gilead and acting appropriately as an oppressed person.

To be a dissident in that situation is hard.

It’s a positive choice to join in the stone throwing though.
If she had stepped back or only tweeted pro trans banalities after the attacks on her started I would have sympathised but she is actively attacking other women.

Same here Countess - I expected her to back down and I posted about giving her room to manoeuvre, but she must know how Twitter works and trying trying to send them after JKR and Maya to rescue her own arse is such a cravenly shit thing to do.

Same here Countess - I expected her to back down and I posted about giving her room to manoeuvre, but she must know how Twitter works and trying trying to send them after JKR and Maya to rescue her own arse is such a cravenly shit thing to do.

Also, she has now got herself into a situation where she is entirely friendless. The TRAs hate her because of the very mild suggestion that feminists might have a point. They will never ever stop hating her. And now she has told the feminists that we are all terrible people. So although many of us were ready to welcome her into the fold with open arms, she's now antagonised us too. So who's left?

She has this long distinguished career and at the age of 80 she's basically just trashed her own reputation by throwing other women under the bus. Why-oh-why would you do that?

many of us were ready to welcome her into the fold with open arms, she's now antagonised us too.

Atwood was never going to come to the GC community. She was always going to stay within her own and that is where, ultimately, she can do the most good.

Most of us are not her community, we don't overlap with her at all. To a large extent this is never about the GC 'community', it's for seeds to to be planted into other communities where there is no understanding of the harms of gender ideology.

None of this is about those of us who understand the issues, it's about reaching the people who don't know about them and don't understand them. There's nothing to be done to shift the true believers which is why I'm interested in the research Gottman has done about long cons/fraud and the overlaps with disinformation (quoted upthread) and what can be learned from that about how to support people who are in communities where disinformation is rampant.

I had some respect for anyone genuinely exploring the "middle ground" as Helen pp put it (I don't really think it's the actual middle ground, but that's beside the point) but this is weird, desperate tactics - real "do it to julia". If MA really was interested in exploring the ideas or debate in the videos surely she could add to them, present her own viewpoint instead of firing out links to indicate she's still on the "right side"?

Jkr herself did that - clearly did lots of reading up before articulating her view. Maya's witness statement was perfectly reasonable and summed up many people's beliefs (it should be linked to more often as a starting point, imo). MA had just waded in, no attempt to address any of the actual points, just pointing at the ones other people pretend they have said.
Just as happens on here repeatedly. Unable to engage with the points raised so make up their own and pretend that's what the argument is about.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

many of us were ready to welcome her into the fold with open arms, she's now antagonised us too.

Atwood was never going to come to the GC community. She was always going to stay within her own and that is where, ultimately, she can do the most good.

Most of us are not her community, we don't overlap with her at all. To a large extent this is never about the GC 'community', it's for seeds to to be planted into other communities where there is no understanding of the harms of gender ideology.

None of this is about those of us who understand the issues, it's about reaching the people who don't know about them and don't understand them. There's nothing to be done to shift the true believers which is why I'm interested in the research Gottman has done about long cons/fraud and the overlaps with disinformation (quoted upthread) and what can be learned from that about how to support people who are in communities where disinformation is rampant.

Yes, for sure.

In some ways, if Atwood sees that she's pissed off everyone, it might release her from having to please anyone, and give her space to look more into the subject and look into what JKR/Maya are actually saying. I really hope she does so.

If I were in Atwood's position, I might note that one side of the debate is calling me an "ugly old white bitch" and telling me to suck their dick, while the other is saying things like "I'm really disappointed by Atwood's attitude." That might give something of a clue to which side is the reasonable one.

It's very strange indeed that she hasn't done that.

Posted by Linda Blade - Irwin is a Member of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta:

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1452349971521425410

@1Week

Even reading the damn book made me think- imagine writing it and knowing less 40 years later

I was thinking of the SF book. It's very weird and anti-woman. But she's recommending it?

@RoyalCorgi

If I were in Atwood's position, I might note that one side of the debate is calling me an "ugly old white bitch" and telling me to suck their dick, while the other is saying things like "I'm really disappointed by Atwood's attitude." That might give something of a clue to which side is the reasonable one.

It's very strange indeed that she hasn't done that.

Except that the majority of people really don’t seem to have put two and two together on that one, it’s not like it’s just her.

I was thinking of the SF book. It's very weird and anti-woman. But she's recommending it?

SF had a prominent place in the recent British Library exhibition: Unfinished Business: The Fight for Women's Rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304834-British-Library-exhibition-Unfinished-Business-The-Fight-for-Womens-Rights

Why wouldn't Atwood perceive SF as a notable cultural figure that is relevant to the UK and internationally? The BL did not include SF's more notorious tweets as part of SF's section in a cabinet of glory.

@RoyalCorgi

If I were in Atwood's position, I might note that one side of the debate is calling me an "ugly old white bitch" and telling me to suck their dick, while the other is saying things like "I'm really disappointed by Atwood's attitude." That might give something of a clue to which side is the reasonable one.

It's very strange indeed that she hasn't done that.

It's possible she still doesn't connect the 'suck my dick' lot with the TRA side of the argument, just thinks it's random hate. She seems to have been very naive and unprepared for what she was walking into.

It’s just such a shitty thing to do, directing a pile on to someone else.

Even if you don’t fully understand the argument, you do understand the abuse you’re getting, and you do understand that you’re therefore purposefully trying to subject others to that same abuse. Yet you’ve shown you don’t even understand their ‘crime’

So low

The author of the opinion piece she RT has been asked to review it to include violence against trans / non binary stats, after umpteen complaints.

They've said no, but it's still nuts.

twitter.com/jessicavt76/status/1452738089672220690?s=21

Would it be possible, do you think, that Atwood has not read JK Rowling's essay, nor anything about Maya's case? Really?