Would anyone mind if I ask a question about Robin Moria White?

[rabbitwoman]

I am sure she won't mind because she used to come here often to plug her book as the definitive guide to trans law.

I just wondered if it might need considerable editing after yesterday? As it will now have to take into account the judgement in Maya Forstater 's case?

Just to add, I had not read a huge amount about Maya. I had read Robin's piece in the independent and thought that it seemed maya was transphobic, and had behaved in a dreadful way.

But I have read all about it in the past few weeks and read the whole judgement yesterday and it's taken my breath away that Robin has not been even reprimanded for what she wrote. Why not?

www.google.com/search?q=robin+moira+white+forstater&oq=robin&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l3j69i57j69i60.2312j0j7&client=ms-android-vf-gb-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

@Melroses

It is worth watching the end of the evidence session for a bit of a finely tuned legal gotcha. Who knew.

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fb12feef-6d41-457a-a102-ea59813bb583

Q68 Robin Moira White: Absolutely. The definition in the Equality Act is that a woman is a female of any age and a man is a male of any age. Forgive me, Karon’s analysis is perfectly intellectually valid, but a different analysis—and we haven’t tried this through—is that all that those definitions do is say that a girl is a woman and a boy is a man. ELA’s view is that there is a complete lack of clarity about that in the Act, so working out who is in which sex for the purposes of the Act is still something that needs to be clarified either in terms of litigation or in more legislation

I’m a bit confused.

It's probably not you

So wonderful to have a whole thread on Mumsnet all to myself. True recognition!

How's the re-write going?

@nauticant

How's the re-write going?

Have you read the present edition? It would appear not.

You do you Robin. Meanwhile the world moves on.

@RobinMoiraWhite

So wonderful to have a whole thread on Mumsnet all to myself. True recognition!

Recognition as....?

Are we just answering questions with questions now?

@TinselAngel

Are we just answering questions with questions now?

Apparently.

I hope RMW's appearance in this thread doesn't stop discussion of the book especially in light of recent court results.

You wouldn't want your presence to stifle reviews (good or bad) would you Robin.

@WanderinWomb

I hope RMW's appearance in this thread doesn't stop discussion of the book especially in light of recent court results.

You wouldn't want your presence to stifle reviews (good or bad) would you Robin.

You would have to read it first. The comments above make abundantly clear that no-one commenting has read it, especially the relevant chapter. That would seem to be a bit of a handicap, IMHO.

Here’s a sentence from that might get discussion going:

many trans people struggle to know when in a new relationship they should make their trans status plain to a potential partner.

You would have to read it first.
I think the OP was hoping the cut out the middle person and get a comment from the author.

In answer to the OP, I guess we can’t be sure if the-drafting will be required but given that there is a chapter on Gender Critical Views, I think it’s fair to see that part will have a glaring omission now.

I used to work in law many years ago and even then books were not the go to resource for the very reason that they become out of date too quickly.

*re-drafting

*fair to say

Apologies, it’s been a long day

A quote from Robin's first chapter which is available for free as a taster, I imagine:

There is still considerable scientific debate about how certain individuals exhibit gender dysphoria (ie distress about their assigned gender) or gender variance. There is some evidence that genetics play a part (it runs in families) and some evidence that nurture has an effect (likelihood of male to female trans child increases with mother’s number of previous male pregnancies). However, it arises, gender dysphoria / gender variance is very real to those who experience it.

Umm...

I hope the rest of the book is a few levels above this, given that Robin expects people to pay £30 to read it.

I used to work in law many years ago and even then books were not the go to resource for the very reason that they become out of date too quickly.

Yes, I can see that being the case. Especially when it's a contentious legal issue that's subject to various reviews, consultations, etc at time of writing. Bit pointless even trying, perhaps.

@TinselAngel

You would have to read it first. I think the OP was hoping the cut out the middle person and get a comment from the author.

We authors have a strange view that folk should buy a book rather than having it read to them for free. Old-fashioned, I know...

I've read the section on gender critical beliefs. It aligns with what the judge said and the Unions said yesterday reminding us all that no one should manifest their beliefs in a discriminatory, harassing or intimidatory manner in the work place. This means trans people can't be misgendered.

So. Gender Critical views - worthy of respect in a democratic society. Who here agrees?

"This means trans people can't be misgendered."

Can't? Ever? In any circumstances?

Not sure it said that.

We authors have a strange view that folk should buy a book rather than having it read to them for free.

Library it is then.

@TheShadowyFeminist

So. Gender Critical views - worthy of respect in a democratic society. Who here agrees?

Did you see Maya's T-shirt?

I did! I've bought a Birdy tshirt with the phrase included in the design.

Can't wait to get it.

@OhHolyJesus

We authors have a strange view that folk should buy a book rather than having it read to them for free.

Library it is then.

Ala, mine doesn't seem to have it. Though maybe I should try to return the books that were due back in March/April last year before trying to take more out.