Reform to the Gender Recognition Act - meeting 24th June 8pm

[Spero]

I'm hosting a meeting via Zoom on 24th June between 8-9pm for anyone who wants to discuss reform/repeal to the GRA.

I think it would be great to have something positive to offer, maybe even a suggested draft of what new law could look like.

If you want a link to the Zoom meeting, please message me here or DM me on Twitter @SVPhillimore

I have set out some brief background as to how we ended up with the GRA and an agenda here

medium.com/@SVPhillimore/first-meeting-of-the-gender-recognition-act-reform-group-a417a0de8bda

I would like to take part. I’m not sure how much I could add because I’m still learning but I feel very strongly about this.

This is really interesting! Thanks. I've sent you a DM on Twitter.

Hope this goes really well and that there are follow up meetings.

Just on a sort of admin type thing, is the only way to get the Zoom link via a Mumsnet direct message?

And do you want this shared elsewhere or just keeping it here.

Unfortunately I cant take part but am hoping it will lead to ongoing discussion.

I'm in - I'll be late but I'm in x

Hi Spero, great idea, I’ve previously contacted the Law Comission about repealing the GRA and was advised that it probably wouldn’t be a suitable candidate for statute law repeal as that tends to focus on areas of law that are no longer ‘live’ and therefore uncontroversial. The best options would probably be to contact the Government Equalities Office (which I think has policy responsibility for that area of law) or your MP.

I don’t know how one ‘reforms’ a law. But clearly the GRA is not working for women and children and urgently needs to be re looked at.

I can’t join the zoom meeting but would be very interested to hear more about this and I have time to help with admin. Hope the meeting goes well.

Also, how can a trans man keep his GRC if they then go on to do the very womanly thing of giving birth? If they promise they will ‘live in their new gender’ how does that get defined? What then happens to other people not living their lives sticking to those rules. I have no wish to make an example of any individual but we know who has done this as they made a documentary about it FFS. It cannot be that a trans man has to be sterilised to enable them to get a GRC, that is cruel. Just as it is not law that a trans woman must have genital surgery rendering them sterile to obtain a GRC. Really trans women should have legal status as trans women and vice versa.

I would really like to take part. Please could you send me the zoom invite. Thanks.

happydappy2 - From the Freddie McConnell Ruling:

Neutral Citation Number: [2019] EWHC 2384 (Fam)
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
FAMILY DIVISION AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE COURT
Case No: FD18F00035
Royal Courts of Justice Strand, London, WC2A 2LL
Date: 25/09/2019
Before:
The Rt. Hon. Sir Andrew McFarlane President of the Family Division
-----

"45. The Secretary of State has the right to refer a GR certificate to the High Court or Family Court if he considers that its grant has been secured by ‘fraud’ [GRA 2004, s 8(5)]. At a preliminary hearing, I enquired whether there was to be any challenge to the validity of the GR certificate in the light of the close chronological alignment of the GR certificate application with the Claimant’s IUI treatment. Having taken instructions, Ms Sarah Hannett, on that occasion acting both for the Secretaries of State and for the RG, confirmed that there was to be no such challenge and that the judicial review proceedings would proceed on the basis that the certificate was valid. This position was confirmed by Mr Ben Jaffey QC at the final hearing, although he reserved the right to refer to TT’s behaviour as part of any submissions on proportionality; in the event this, potentially striking, aspect of the factual background was not in fact referred to in submissions. I have therefore ignored it in my analysis of the issues."

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2019/2384.pdf

Perhaps the Sec of State turned a blind eye in order to enable the case go ahead, so the point of law could be clarified?

@molesmokes - yes I think that is one of the most interesting elements of that case and the one no one dared go near!

I have no idea how to go about reforming or repealing a law either. But I think the point here is that we are meeting and talking about it - as we have every right to do.

I think it's really important we 'normalise' this exercise of our Article 10 rights. It is not a 'hate crime' and it is not 'transphobic' to do so.

Oh yes please I will be there if I can xx

How do I dm on here? I've vacated twitter for the day because I need to focus on work

Will the discussion points be available afterwards anywhere?

I've sent a dm on here @spero - am hoping to come if I can get a link to the meeting.

Yes it would be good if the discussion points were summarised somewhere later for reference for those who are unable to attend.

yes, I will record and write up the meeting.

I have been warned that there may be infiltration by those not acting in good faith who will record and attempt to use clips out of context etc. I will warn everyone at the start so if people feel that's too big a risk, they can leave.

However, I think it is very important to stand firm in the exercise of our democratic right to speak about our laws, so I am happy for whatever I say to be repeated elsewhere. I have nothing to be ashamed of and I am breaking no law.

@12boo

How do I dm on here? I've vacated twitter for the day because I need to focus on work

You should see an option 'message poster' on the top right?

@stumbledin

Hope this goes really well and that there are follow up meetings.

Just on a sort of admin type thing, is the only way to get the Zoom link via a Mumsnet direct message?

And do you want this shared elsewhere or just keeping it here.

Unfortunately I cant take part but am hoping it will lead to ongoing discussion.

I am restricting sending the link to those who ask me directly as I think this is the only kind of quality control I can realistically exercise. I am well aware that some of the people coming may not be genuinely interested in talking about reform/repeal of the law. But I think its more important to press on and not allow ourselves to be cowed into silence by that worry.

Just checked my inbox and sent the link.

There is a message from a transman asking to join but for some reason my reply won't sent, so I hope you can read it here.

This meeting is open to ALL who genuinely wish to discuss repeal/reform to a confused and confusing law.

I will eject ANYONE who cannot be respectful to anyone else. I am not 'transphobic' but I believe sex is real, it matters, and it must be defined and protected at law.

That does not mean I wish to 'erase' the identity of a biological woman who wishes to be 'seen as' a man. It means everyone needs to accept and understand that their personal wishes for self validation cannot automatically be imposed on everyone else and in all circumstances.

At the moment we appear to have zero clarity and 'Self ID' imposed by stealth. I object to this, I want a law to protect the safety and dignity of all. We urgently need to have a grown up discussion about how to do this.

that is the only criterion for coming to this meeting. That you are capable of having a grown up discussion.

Found it thank you

I would love to partake in this, is that okay?

@StayEs

I would love to partake in this, is that okay?

Send Spero a direct message / private message either here or on Twitter and she will send you the link for tonight.

Thanks for reply Spero.

Suspected you were not wanting too much sharing.

Hope all goes well, and it might be a video?

Or maybe not as some may only feel able to contribute anonymously.

What a horrible position we are now in that even having a straightforward debate has to be weighed up against possible negative consequences IRL.

Just published a summary of the meeting on Medium for anyone interested who couldn't make it. I hope we will meet again in July and move this project forward. Whatever happens, I am going to learn a lot!

Thanks to all who showed an interest.
medium.com/@SVPhillimore/the-first-meeting-of-the-gender-recognition-act-reform-group-7c1c2cfca82f

Hi Spero, I’d missed this thread up to the first meeting, but would very much like to join the group and the next meeting.

I’ve send you a dm.