Do you ever wonder...

[Whyrmengreattiltheygottabgreat]

...if some of the Uber-Woke secretly do question some of the current rhetoric, but have painted themselves so far into the corner that it’s almost impossible to extricate themselves.

I know a few people who are involved in an extremely “Woke” organisation. If anybody involved in this organisation were to express any GC belief, they would certainly lose their jobs, a large portion of their social circle, possibly even relationships.

There’s a bit of me that feels quite sorry for people like this. If they were to question any part of this, they would lose so much. No wonder the same arguments get repeated over and over.

And if anyone wonders if this is a 'pile on' to a specific poster (NB- usually a term only used to attack FWR posters responding to posts or threads that they're concerned about - wedding threads, parking threads, never a pile on, just lots of people with opinions!) Bespin has often flagged that they work with vulnerable children who identify as trans.

So Bespin's approach to this board, including 'lolling' at concerns raised about men competing in women's sports, disinterest in wider concerns raised such as those in this thread, and potentially personal attacks (eg 'you're not a woman'!) are very relevant to a wider discussion.

Is it wrong to really really want to know who bespin thinks is lying about their nether regions

some of the posters on here who are gender critical and say there woman are sometimes clearly not

Me! Me! Me! I'm the first gerbil that ever learned to type.

Bet you lot never saw that one coming.

Rufus, it's very wrong and you should have a word with yourself.

Full disclosure, I am in lifelong posession of the most wondrous of physical attributes, the clitoris. In case anyone was stressing.

if some of the Uber-Woke secretly do question some of the current rhetoric, but have painted themselves so far into the corner that it’s almost impossible to extricate themselves.

Yes, definitely. There are lots of reasons why they continue to toe the wokeline and fear of life changing consequences is a big one. It will take a combination of increasing background GC noise (media, wider conversations, legislative fight back etc) combined with a few brave individuals among them losing their livelihood and social circle, for them to come out as GC.

Bespin, gender hurts people. If we binned gender, that hurt would end. Tell me how scrapping gender and being GC hurts anybody please?

Gerbil no

Bearded dragon...yep

You are not a woman sack...Fact

Lol mate. Is it cos I like maths and has short hair?

I’m a hedgehog tbf mate

I am suitably chastised floral

And im glad my doubts about you have been resolved

So its deffo lang we think

Bearded dragon...yep

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It’s m8 ffs

Women 😎

s it cos I like maths and has short hair

Errrrrrr

Yeeeesssss???

Right bed

Night all...

So its deffo lang we think

If you eat Weetabix with banana for breakfast every day, you become a gerbil. That's fact.

Bearded dragon.
Lol.

I think its Lang. No real woman likes WBH that stubbornly.

.if some of the Uber-Woke secretly do question some of the current rhetoric, but have painted themselves so far into the corner that it’s almost impossible to extricate themselves.

Sorry, Why realise I have also derailed accidentally.

I agree - my colleague who wrote a serious-faced email telling me that I needed to understand that some women have prostates and some men have cervixes is probably in that situation - easier to state false facts than to lose social relationships and work 'wokeness' points.

Shout m8 at them then tell them to fuck off
That’s what men do

No time for fancy chit chat. Seems like it works

Or descends into all out war 🔥

Well, I do think it's an interesting question because so much of wokeness relies on the appearance of deep pondering while simultaneously doing everything possible to shut down rational thought (the use of mantras etc). So the biggest obstacle to real self awareness for cult members is that they think it's a virtue to refuse to investigate too much lest they 'invalidate' anyone.

Definitely. So much airy pondering on “what defines a woman” and so little cold hard facts.
Also, so little positive action. If you want to support the trans community, more power to you. Raise funds, campaign, volunteer. Public posturing without action is not “supporting a community”. It’s performative so all your wee pals can see what a righteous dude you are.
Rips my knitting right up the middle

I know someone who, while she was training in transgender medicine, was also moaning about the homeless transwoman she'd invited to share her house. The transwoman was 6' 4" and weighed more than 20 stone. The woke doctor ('Transwomen are our sisters!') was terrified her guest would break her bed and appalled at the state her kitchen was left in. It was very strange, being told with one breath that we ought to be inviting such women into our lives and then hearing that they were behaving just like men — breaking things and never clearing up after themselves. How the doctor can hold it all together is beyond me. Being woke confers kudos and brownie points and that must make the dissonance more bearable.

I am actually glad to see Bespin around, I thought Bespin's partner had banned her from mumsnet FWR.
Hope you're okay, Bespin.

Bespin, you say you can tell that some posters purporting to be women on these boards are actually men and you find it amusing that they’ve managed to fool us? Yes, well, that’s not such a difficult thing to do on an anonymous Internet forum where no one can be 100% sure that anyone is who or what they say they are.

Thing is can you be absolutely sure you’re not assuming these male posters’ gender? I mean if they are gc trans-identifying men (there are a few) then surely, by your gender theory logic, that would make them women so it’s kinda mean of you to be calling them men wouldn’t you say?

Unless you mean they are men masquerading as women for some nefarious purpose? Nah, that can’t be right because we’ve been assured that never happens.

I think you can clearly see that not everyone believes their own sh%t about TWAW, when the sport convo comes up. I have regular discussions about the whole topic on another forum, which is equal parts wokey woke and conservative - on any topic other than sports, the vitriol is incredible and the insistence that TWAW and their gender id is to respected at all times, even in prison, is full on (from the wokeys, not the conservatives). But when sport comes up, suddenly there is this silence, or wringing of hands, or 'oh, this is so hard because how to be fair to girls and women AND transwomen', and the mask slips.

No, the wokeys don't really believe TWAW. It's a political statement, not a foundational belief. Because sport allows us to talk about male and female bodies, and testosterone, and male puberty, and virilization, and suddenly - the sole argument is the really weak one that shrugs 'well, it's unfair, but does sport really matter?'

I only know one person who literally believes the dogma, and she's a woman I supported when her daughter came out as gay, and her family and church had major ructions. The daughter is now, of course, a transman, and this mom truly believes that she never had a daughter, that she had a son trapped in a female body who has now been liberated - with the handy and entirely co-incidental side effect that her family and church give her way less grief this way. She can't engage in discussion, because she truly believes her daughter is a man. She thinks her gay daughter, in a relationship with another girl, is also straight.