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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Judicial review of City of London's decision

55 replies

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 23/05/2019 12:12

Does anyone know if this is in the offing? I'd be happy to contribute to a crowdfund (or even photocopy some bundles).

OP posts:
Procrastinator2 · 23/05/2019 18:55

Looks like someone may be taking the plunge. I am sure the orthodox Jewish women will be well supported by their community, but I hope they know that other women will be very grateful to them for what they are doing.
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/strictly-orthodox-women-to-mobilise-against-opening-hampstead-heath-ladies-pond-to-trans-swimmers-1.484633

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/05/2019 19:00

wow, that is good news

Manclife1 · 23/05/2019 19:04

It’s likely to fail as religion tends to take second places to LGBT rights.

HandsOffMyRights · 23/05/2019 19:04

Proud of women again for taking this on. How dare Lord and co assume women are just an inconvenience to their 'fait accompli'

ChattyLion · 23/05/2019 19:33

Excellent work those women.Flowers

Needmoresleep · 23/05/2019 20:02

Good.

The perfect group to take it on. Hampstead has a large Jewish population, a group that already feels threatened by an increase in anti-Semitism, and Jews are well-represented in the City and have been for centuries.

The decision is wrong. It would be great to prove this via Judicial Review, but equally it would be useful if senior figures in the City were to take a closer look at Edward Lord and why he seems to be subject to so little scrutiny.

HumberElla · 23/05/2019 20:13

More power to them! If anyone has connections and wants to point them here I’d love to support those women!
I worked close by and used the women’s pond regularly. I no longer live in London but id be there in a beat to show my solidarity.

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 23/05/2019 20:17

Needmoresleep - am going to PM you

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 23/05/2019 20:27

Rosa, if you’re reading this, thank you so much for all you’re doing.

I see the outrage this is causing and find myself hoping this will come to be seen as one of the major missteps taken by anti-women activists.

JackyHolyoake · 23/05/2019 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JackyHolyoake · 23/05/2019 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MacaroonMama · 23/05/2019 20:46

This is utterly ridiculous. The ponds are already the perfect example of a third or mixed sex or gender neutral space. The other two should remain single sex. How does this not meet everybody's needs?

I guess maybe those who need constant validation of what they are not, or who do not want women to have anything for themselves.

Outanabout · 23/05/2019 21:15

Humph, I was shot down when I suggested yesterday that Muslim and Jewish women would be allies. I don't see that what's being talked about here is that different to what I was skirting around.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3592315-Money-talks-and-bullshit-walks

FreeFreesia · 23/05/2019 21:24

It’s likely to fail as religion tends to take second places to LGBT rights.

That assumes they are going for discrimination. Maybe they will go on process was flawed for a farce of a consultation that wasn't advertised and wasn't accessible to many (recall wasn't available in other languages/mediums?).

Outanabout · 23/05/2019 21:29

The reporting of it in the media is well dodgy as well, no mention of the mass rejection of responses for wrongthink.

OhHolyJesus · 23/05/2019 21:36

Also in for a crowdfunder.

Muststopfaffing · 23/05/2019 21:44

Who decided which responses were rejected? Do we know? I imagine someone with a well known vested interest wouldn’t want th3 “wrong” decision to be made. Also, IANAL...can a judicial review overturn the decision or only comment on the legality of it, leaving the decision open to people suing?

OldCrone · 23/05/2019 21:45

All UK public consultations are supposed to comply with the Gunning Principles.

1. proposals are still at a formative stage
A final decision has not yet been made, or predetermined, by the decision makers

2. there is sufficient information to give ‘intelligent consideration’
The information provided must relate to the consultation and must be available, accessible, and easily interpretable for consultees to provide an informed response

3. there is adequate time for consideration and response
There must be sufficient opportunity for consultees to participate in the consultation. There is no set timeframe for consultation, despite the widely accepted twelve-week consultation period, as the length of time given for consultee to respond can vary depending on the subject and extent of impact of the consultation

4. ‘conscientious consideration’ must be given to the consultation responses before a decision is made
Decision-makers should be able to provide evidence that they took consultation responses into account

In this case, I'm not sure that they complied with any of them.

The risk of not following these principles could result in a Judicial Review. A number of public bodies across the UK have been taken to Judicial Review and deemed to have acted unlawfully in their Public Sector Equality Duty – usually linked to the four Gunning Principles.

www.nhsinvolvement.co.uk/connect-and-create/consultations/the-gunning-principles

The judicial review should be about the way in which the consultation was carried out and the way the decision was made, rather than the decision itself. If the process was flawed then any decision made is unlawful.

OvaHere · 23/05/2019 21:46

A final decision has not yet been made, or predetermined, by the decision makers

I'd say it was a given that it falls down on this principle alone. EL was going to fudge this anyway he could.

HandsOffMyRights · 23/05/2019 21:57

This is a superbly detailed legal breakdown of this deeply skewed survey.

THREAD - The Rise of Gender Identity and the Fall of Sex

Hey @edwardlord!
Yesterday I heard about the consultation you sponsored as officer of @cityoflondon regarding "gender identity".

The consultation, the survey and the whole process raised some red flags.
Bear with me t.co/s6sMlDpWh5 twitter.com/BraveNewEden/status/1131622530941366273?s=17

RussianSpamBot · 23/05/2019 22:02

Solidarity with Orthodox Jewish women defending their sex based rights.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 23/05/2019 22:25

HandsOff My Rights
That's a superb take down of this grubby little exercise in removing women's rights.

Justhadathought · 23/05/2019 22:33

It’s likely to fail as religion tends to take second places to LGBT rights

I'm not sure that's true...certainly if the religion Islam. This is one of the crosses that the liberal left has to bear.

Justhadathought · 23/05/2019 22:34

...although I appreciate in this case it is Judaism.

What it will do, however, is develop consciousness around the full impact of any change to Gender Self ID.

Yeahnahyeah · 23/05/2019 23:09

handsoffmyrights
This is a superbly detailed legal breakdown of this deeply skewed survey.

THREAD - The Rise of Gender Identity and the Fall of Sex

This is brilliant, I just came on to post it too.