I was thinking of 'Man Fridaying' my local gay sauna but I wrote to them instead....

[barelove]

I emailed my local sauna who advertised 'Men only naked nights' asking if they would allow a trans person who identified as a gay man but presented as female (ie. pre surgery) to attend. They simply answered by saying that I would be more comfortable going to a cross dressing event that runs on another night. I then asked them to clarify that as a gay male identifying, female presenting person I would not be allowed in to their men only night. Again they avoided answering the question directly by saying that the only event I'd be welcome at would be the cross dressing night. I wrote back saying that I actually only identify as a man on fridays (Man Fridays!) and how happy I was to hear that they only allow men who were born men into their male only spaces and that I applaud their common sense. Ha! They then got back to me with a very panicky and defensive response stating that their business has always been welcoming to the trans community both pre and post op and that they did not appreciate me trying to catch them out or wasting their time. Obviously, I was confused by this response and wrote back querying their about turn. Once again, they responded by saying that 'the men only events are for MEN ONLY. ie Male men' but that they have another night where anyone can attend including trans people. The overall tone was defensive and fearful ending with 'We most strongly object to anyone saying we are being excluding or prejudiced towards any part of the community'. Which I'd never actually said or even implied! To summarise, it seems that this sauna business was great at sticking to their sex specific, men only nights but were terrified of having this pointed out publicly. I wonder why?!

Interesting exchange.
It looks to me they've heard of Man Friday and are scared of getting in the papers.

Male only (especially gay male only) spaces do consistently uphold their customs more rigorously than goes for female only or lesbian same-sex environments, which routinely allow self identified women in or they get closed down.

Funny that.

Defensive and fearful is what we'll all be soon if this shit show carries on.

I was thinking the same thing! My motivation was to get the interest of gay men by demonstrating how the introduction of self id would impact on their men only spaces. I'm was thinking that, as men their outraged voices would be heard louder than ours.

I'm loving the context specific ads getting served up on this thread ...

that's really funny actually
I hope you have kept copies of everything
after reading datalounge I have been thinking some of these men could be our allies- but I don't know how we reach them- obviously the business owners are shit scared

Trying again with the attachment

Candidpeel
I absolutely do not get those adverts on my mumsnet.
But how weird I got a "Black Friday" one!

Yes I've been getting these for days now, ever since the thread about the transman kicked out of "Sailors" sauna.

Much as I am entertained by the images of buff young men in budgie smugglers disporting themselves by the pool on a luxury cruise liner, I fear that fifty something little old me is not their target demographic. (Though thanks to the menopause I do quite a good line in manly designer stubble).

Serf the black Friday one will be because it's picked up on the keyword "Friday" because we mentioned Man Friday.

But transmen won't try and muscle in on men only spaces, because transmen do not experience male entitlement because they are women

I don't know Fermat, young men and older women is a thing, you know. Not much talked about but it's real.

Poor Sailors. I sort of feel sorry for them as they seem to have been caught between a rock and a hard place. They were only licensed for men, so when a person showed up who looked like a woman, at least when naked, they seem to have said they needed to check with the licensing authority - which they did. They would not want to lose their licence, so not really their call. The Council said it was ok so they let the trans man in.

Man Fridaying their spaces and handing out the literature 'Why is there a woman in here?!' would hopefully ignite their interest and get them taking action, but it'd take brave women to do it. Having our furry vulvas in their all male saunas might understandably piss them off!

I’m getting the gay cruises. I wonder how long they go on for, and if DH will notice/wonder about my browsing history.

Any one up for Man Fridaying a gay cruise? Obviously we'd have to jump ship first thing saturday morning!

Ancient I fear the major stumbling block in this instance is not my age but my bag... Though I suppose if I wait till Friday and drop my voice half an octave it could become my mangina. (Still don't think the dashing young chaps in the and would be interested in it, even after its rebranding.)

Bag? Fucking auto correct - my vag dammit, my vag.

“We most strongly object to anyone saying we are being excluding or prejudiced towards any part of the community”

Quite like that line. Those of us who have concerns about male bodied people in previously women only facilities, programmes, competitions, scholarships and services object strongly to being called transphobic.

Why do I get ads for tea and you get buff young men in budgie smugglers ?

I think it would be doing them a service to emphasise that it is legal for them to provide a single-sex service.

I’m getting ugly coats.

I'm getting 'efficient heating', which has changed to an ad for teas and infusions, as I write.

I'm clearly failing to identify as a gay man this evening. Even my browser knows I'm a middle aged woman who feels the cold and likes a nice cup of tea.

caught between a rock and a hard place

Which one of those is the penis and which one is the vagina?

Btw, glad of the clarification, Fermat. I'm stretching my brain in all directions wondering what bag you're taking into the sauna.

Well Fermat they're just a bunch of bigots who need to get over their sexual preferences. I was also wondering about this bag of yours and what it might contain ....