Talk on legal implications of GRA - at Reading Uni 29/10/18

[ContessaGoesMarchingDOWNTOHELL]

I should have advertised this to you lot and am kicking myself! It's today at 5pm, Chancellor's building, G03. I will take notes and report back!

Rosemary Ekmutie (sp)? up first, defining terms and talking about the GRA 2004.

Rosemary Auchmuty. Thanks for the thread.

1. Reason the GRA came into being - the Goodwin case
2. Emphasising that trans people deserve same rights as everyone else and to discuss rights is not transphobia
3. Self-ID: not arguing much with removing the pathologisation of transgender, but against self-ID as it's an important decision
4. Suggests self-declaration in front of witnesses instead; incorporates non-binary
5. Also cautiously pro the idea of living as other gender
6. Moves onto Equality Act 2010, explaining how it works together with GRA
7. Notes sex and gender are not interchangeable and explains terms
8. Notes no hierarchy in the protected characteristics of the EA; can cause lack of clarity
9. Lists areas where gender must be distinguished from sex (I.e. competitive sports, religious requirements)
10. Talks about transwomen and biological women
11. Notes transwomen are biologically male, and often intact
12. ManFriday at Hampstead Heath got a mention (or at least referred to)!
13. Stats on sex and gender separately would be useful - goes on to talk about competitive sport
14. Mixed up transboy and transgirl at one point...
15. Sweeping overview of current issues with self-ID (I.e. Guides, sports)
16. Woman have always suffered inequality based on sex - we need these spaces set up to balance the playing field
17. Mentions Pip Bloody Bunce as a bad thing
18. Also notes concern for transsexual people under changes for new change vs old change
19. Trans rights should not be elevated above the rights of all others
20. Says she's gender critical
21. Says law always deals with competing rights and should be same for everyone

Onto Julie Bindel!

thanks for reporting - looking forwards to reading more!

Oh wow! How the hell was this freethink allowed to go ahead?

1. Rosemary West - female abuser - a rarity
2. Male violence against women - endemic male privilege
3. Girls not born to be victims
4. Get rid of all sexed/gendered titles
5. While fighting men's violence, we need to know who's who
6. "Rumour is, some people quite like seeing penises"
7. Unifying sentiment amongst women globally: fear of men's violence
8. Rosemary has already led into this topic - will go from there
9. Bewails sex=gender phenomenon - just inaccurate
10. Gender a social construct - cause/consequence of patriarchy
11. Explains feminist view of gender (clue: bad)
12. Notes men and boys suffer under patriarchy too, but also a lot of privilege
13. You can't shift gender medically; it's not a thing
14. Sex-based discrimination is real
15. Talks about impact on recorded crimes (hello Karen W - referred to as he)
16. Talks about illegality of disclosing Karen's prev offending history
17. An issue in women's prisons, clearly
18. Trans people are not by definition sexual predators
19. There are a hell of a lot of predatory men though
20. Talks about personal experience of men and women prisons
21. Ian Huntley brought up
22. Impossible to assess a feeling of being a woman
23. Some men are lovely. System is not
24. Not about taking away the rights of trans people - wants to protect them
25. Sex-based rights must stand though

She's amazing!

Onto Christina Harrison. Looks nervous, reading from notes.

Who was the audience Contessa? Students/public?
Did you get the feeling they were GC / trans supportive?

Sounds like a constructive session

Thanks for the live posting

Point 4 about scrapping titles is a good move.

The country I live in doesn't use them, and it's such a simple little step to take towards equality.

Everybody just uses names. To use the old titles would be a very formal thing to do.

It's a change I would love to see the UK adopting, but I imagine there would be a lot of resistance and it would be a slow shift if it happened.

1. States she is transsexual
2. Claim that trans woman are actual women is problematic
3. The statement that a penis is a female sexual organ on a transwoman is also problematic
4. Woman being told to accept male-appearing people as women
5. Alex... something mentioned (sorry, didn't catch name) as a very male-presenting man claiming to be woman
6. Discusses issue for lesbians (women vs transwomen)
7. Talks about how changing legal sex shifts your definition under the EA
8. Talks about success of women campaigning
9. Category of sex becomes meaningless if a man can self-define as female
10. Can a person with a GRC be excluded based on EA? Appears not
11. Even rape crisis centres having issue on this
12. Legal profession conflicted, so poor service providers are having trouble
13. Issues with law and also funding bodies
14. Companies will not enforce women's rights later if they have been even more atrophied
15. Legally 2 routes to being a woman: be born one, or acquire a GRC
16. Self-ID makes this far far easier
17. Keeping male bodies 'unaltered'
18. Believes pushing GRA through will degrade women's rights further
19. Mentions Guides again
20. Ability for women to organise as a sex is being threatened
21. Sports mentioned negatively
22. Pressure in day to day life will influence prison policy too, badly
23. Rapes violence centres, domestic violence refuges etc - all will be disadvantages
24. How to move forward with GRA?
25. Health, safety and welfare of individuals is key aim for places such as dv refuges
26. Need to clarify law to show Single sex exemption needed in some cases such as above
27. Talks about how exemptions may occasionally be needed for individuals
28. Perhaps single sex and single gender provision? Seems possible, and useful - just one idea
29. Services need to protect dignity and autonomy of all
30. Thanks everyone for letting the debate happen

The talk sounds amazing! I hope you are enjoying it! :)

Lots of students. Also a fair few from the department I think.

First Q: legally you can't ask if someone has a GRC, can you?
Rosa Freedman: certain services can check for one

Argh, I would've gone, my DS works there I hope he saw it and went, but I think he'd have told me. But thankyou for excellent points updates

Fantastic live posting - thanks so much Contessa.

Room is about 2/3 full, and I'd say 2:1 women:men.

Actually about a third students, now I look...

Another reading based mumsnetter and reading uni alumni here. Wish I had known!

Thanks for posting.

Discussion about immutability of some characteristics but not others (male questioner): Do those who argue for the change in the law accept that single-sex spaces are still needed in the old manner?

I think he's asking if transpeople are happy with single sex exemptions being applied sometimes

Kristina was referring to Alex Drummond - famously 'expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman' and on the Stonewall Advisory Gp.

Rosemary saying if you say anything other than "this is great" you get shouted down.

Says transpeople say sex-based exemptions should just be applied and law can sort it out afterwards

Says she's never met a woman who hasn't experienced harassment from men; she thinks TW just don't get it as a thing and are a bit bemused

Julie talking about Stonewall trying to undo all sex-based exemptions

Massive difference btw trans lobby and transgender community

Describes the different populations (decries 'woke' youth)

Talks of trans misogynist lobby who have loud voices and really hate women

Trans community not represented by the above

Rosa has been getting a lot of hassle/abuse since she went public with her (thoughtful and well-argued) views. It's brave of her to set this event up but it sounds as if she's got a great line-up there. Good to have that range of different experiences all raising similar concerns. Helps to overcome the 'bigot' response. Though doubtless some will still make it.

Christina talking about general public perception of a trans person as being a transsexual, and perceptions of trans in general

'If you ID as a woman, you are a woman' - theory growing in popularity

They don't like it to be called ladybrain