Stonewall and trans activism to be debated on Radio 4 PM

[niceberg]

PM has just started. There is going to be some sort of live debate - sounds like Stonewall are coming on. Don’t know exactly when though.

Ruthie told such dreadful lies
It made one gasp and stretch one’s eyes

Or in my case, swear impotently at the radio

Honestly, what a specimen, eh?

Jonny was really really good and Carolyn Quinn - brilliant. I have emailed PM.

Repeated again in the news round up at approximately 6.23pm. Jonathan's was the only voice heard and it was a brilliant quote from him too.

There was a good report on it at about 6.20 after PM.

Quinn should have challenged Hunt more on her lies, I do beg your pardon misunderstanding, on the legal issues

I missed this!
But I do love Carolyn Quinn.

Stonewall's lack of influence is interesting, with all the Schools awards and 'diversity education' etc.

I understand it's about 47 mins in
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000mm9

I thought Jonny was excellent too - packed a lot of info into a few minutes and was very clear about how women and girls are being thrown under the bus and the climate of fear around talking about that. I think a lot of R4 listeners will be thinking about the issues he described.

Ruth, on the other hand, didn't answer the questions she was asked - all she seemed to have was "TWAW" and "it's not Stonewall's fault". Her interview will be viewed as a political response by R4 listeners who are very accustomed to reading between the lines of slippery answers.

I adore Carolynn Quinn too

Yes, Carolyn was very good - I wonder whether she was one of the concerned people at the BBC Jonny referenced?

Haven't rtft yet so pails if this has been said.

I couldn't help noticing that Ruth kept it all about TWAW. Poor trans men didn't get a look in. I wonder why that might be.

Wow, JB was great, I'm a little bit in love with him.

And Carolyn Quinn too.

The tide is turning I think.

Poor trans men didn't get a look in. I wonder why that might be

To be fair we need to get the public to understand the concept that tranwomen can look, act and be just like men with a fully working penis, before we can get the other issues across.

oh sorry i didn't read your comment properly mrs yes you are right.....

And for me, That's it in a nutshell. This isn't about anyone but men.

It is all about pressuring women to accept that any man who says he is a woman is a woman. Transmen are only useful if they can be used against women (ie cervix havers), or the many young girls with ROGD to prove that it is not a male thing.

Just listened to the PM piece. It was a shame that neither of them raised the issue in The Times letter of whether trans rights foster homophobia- how does Stonewall define homosexuality these days? Homo-genderality?

Do you know I’d never thought of that. If there is no man or woman there is no homosexuality.

And you are right - no mention at all about Transmen. It's the same old story, isn't it - always about Male-bodied people.

Gay men have no trouble in telling trans men they are not welcome and trans men are socialised (as female born) to go away quietly. Lesbians are socialised as women to be nice and inclusive and accept lady penis. So either way, the men get what they want.

dream interview (not real):
Interviewer: so, Ruth Hunt, CEO of Stonewall, would you describe yourself as homosexual?
RH: yes, of course
Interviewer: specifically, would you describe yourself as a lesbian?
RH: yes
Interviewer: and could you explain for our audience what a lesbian is?
RH: a woman who is sexually attracted to other women
Interviewer: are you attracted to trans women? You say they are women too.
RH: I don't think my personal life is relevant and I am not putting it up for discussion
Interviewer: would you say lesbians in general accept the notion that to be sexually attracted to a trans woman is lesbian in nature?
RH: yes, of course, TWAW so yes
Interviewer: and conversely trans women being attracted to women, that makes them lesbians?
RH: yes of course
Interviewer: the Stonewall trans umbrella includes occasional cross dressers, is that correct? Plus the non-binary, it's not just full sex change operations we're talking, right?
RH: trans women who might not have had access to the surgery they require are still women.
Interviewer: how aware are lesbians that you agree male bodied people who don't take hormones, haven't had surgery and don't live full time as women can be lesbians if they have a sexual attraction to women? Are lesbians aware of that?

i wish we had someone ask her this stuff

The chap was very good. He should have been allowed to respond to Ruth, but she's probably have a #nodebate tantrum about being asked perfectly reasonable and uncontroversial questions.

I'm always shocked with these features just how little they are allowed to go into things. They barely scrape the surface.