Stonewall and trans activism to be debated on Radio 4 PM

[niceberg]

PM has just started. There is going to be some sort of live debate - sounds like Stonewall are coming on. Don’t know exactly when though.

What does she mean 'transwomen are women is enshrined in law'? Surely that's just her interpretation.

Trans women are women isn't enshrined in law though.

That's made up.

I can't decide if he's weak, stupid or complicit in something really bad

Surely that's just her interpretation

No, it's just an outright lie.

Sorry, I can't decide if she's weak, stupid, or knowingly complicit in something really bad. Or if, someone suggested on another thread, someone's kidnapped her cat

Weak, stupid AND complicit imo chrysanth

I can’t believe that Ruth really believes this crap. She’s a politician and she thinks this stance will get her cash and recognition.

And she’s willing to let women be assaulted and erased to do that.

Do you think that she was referring to how a GRC gives someone legal status as the opposite sex?

What does she mean by TWAW being enshrined in law?

Jonny was great, the interviewer was great, it needs follow up to unpack more of the issues.

What astonished me was how much she felt entitled to talk for the government. In that short time to include phrases such as: "The Ministry of Justice is reviewing this" and "There is an event in parliament next week". Shows where her focus is. And how top-down she is, not connected to her grassroots. She's not saying "I'm hearing from trans members and supporters of Stonewall that they have been affected", she said "my board have decided to stick with this campaign." Stonewall has never been a member organisation, they've leveraged the community to support campaigns they decide on themselves. And now that disconnect between their decisions and their community is leading to them getting unstuck. Having Jonny on R4 today has made it public that they are not trying to work across their whole community, just sticking like glue to their own campaign.

No mention of course of lesbian, gay or bisexual people.

Stonewall is now solely for trans. That's what Ruth is saying.

Do you think that she was referring to how a GRC gives someone legal status as the opposite sex?

No she's just parroting what someone has told her.
The same reason GirlGuides think there's a recent change in the law.

So, I take it that Ruth Hunt does only consider male people with a GRC as trans women, then. Because no other males are trans and legally women.

Jonny was excellent. It has to be said.

I love that he got both 'egregious' and the BBC into his debate. Spot on.

It's interesting if Hunt did mean that, because it shows that Stonewall are not prepared to discuss their OWN DEFINTION (the "umbrella") in mainstream media; in fact, that they're being outright duplicitous by omission about it.

Good point! TheMostBeautiful

“Why are you listening to this?” Asked DH. Half an hour of all the nuggets I’ve gathered from these boards over the past year & I think I peaked transed him.

Well done Jonnie. And yes a brownie badge for egregious.

Ruth do-da came across as slightly unhinged and myopic. And fibbing.

Interviewer was pretty good I thought.

has anyone tweeted to him the video to get children to fill in the GRA consultation?

I'm a huge lurker on these boards, and heard the "debate" when I was cooking dinner.

Jonny came across really, really well & Ruth did not.

I'm not what could be called an activist, but my friends are all starting to discuss this issue & I've sent them all here for information.

Interestingly, my best friend is a gay man, so I spend a lot of my social life in gay bars, and a lot of gay men & women are conflicted, because part of them feel they should support their trans friends, and the other part understands the issues that are discussed on here.

I've tried in my own way to explain to them that it's not to do with picking sides, and no one wants to make life difficult for trans people, but it is important that trans people aren't given rights at the detriment of women.

I, honestly, think that sensible debate is starting to happen

Jonny was just great. So clear. "Egregious bullies". Shame there wasn't more time.

Carolynn Quinn also great. More please Carolynn!

Ruth Hunt... [eyeroll]

Carolynn was great!

This is Jonny's tweet.

twitter.com/JonnnyBest/status/1047881071700967424

I heard the item and was very pleased the BBC allowed the discussion. The man on was very good. One person rightly said the current law was under review which is true but that has not of course yet been changed.

I think we have turned the corner in the last month or two in enabling free debate of the issue (and my own view is we should leave the current law as it is as it is reasonable compromised and not allow the ridiculous self ID)

I heard most of it on the way home. I pulled over to listen but I needed to get going before the end. (If I’d sat on the driveway listening DH would have come out and bothered me).

I thought Jonny came across very well. He wasn’t saying anything about the actual trans debate, just that we are being stopped from having it.
I was angry as hell though that all the time we’ve been saying this no fucker has listened but now a man has said it everyone has to shut up and pay attention. Nothing against him, and I’m glad he’s saying it, just cross with the patriarchy there really.

bother - I missed it. I hope I can listen to it on i-player.