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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Letter in The Guardian from Transexuals saying self ID not the answer

512 replies

invisibleoldwoman · 04/05/2018 18:20

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/04/standing-up-for-transsexual-rights?CMP=share_btn_fb

OP posts:
Weezol · 04/05/2018 18:48

Heartfelt thanks to all signatories. The phrase 'meaningful transition' hit me right in the chest. I cannot articulate how essential those two words are, how much I respect the absolute rightness of and right to a 'meaningful transition'.

I think I've got something in my eye.

Owllady · 04/05/2018 18:50

Eventually!

LangCleg · 04/05/2018 18:50

I know others seem to accept a two tier trans system, and truthfully I don't distinguish between the two groups, but I can acknowledge the courage it takes to put your name to a letter like that. And I have enormous respect for MY who has reasoned the whole process through with huge honesty and integrity.

YY to this.

flowersonthepiano · 04/05/2018 18:51

Thank you Flowers

spontaneousgiventime · 04/05/2018 18:51

I know others seem to accept a two tier trans system, and truthfully I don't distinguish between the two groups, but I can acknowledge the courage it takes to put your name to a letter like that. And I have enormous respect for MY who has reasoned the whole process through with huge honesty and integrity.

Yes, I can agree with this.

TheMonstrousRegiment · 04/05/2018 18:54

Thank you @JayceeDove , very brave! FlowersWine

changeypants · 04/05/2018 18:57

Brilliant. Am also waiting for lesbians and gay men to speak out about their experiences being appropriated and erased too.

WishTheGroundWouldSwallowMeUp · 04/05/2018 19:05

Thank you Wine

I hope this helps women's and transexual voices be heard, and opens the debate up.

CharlieParley · 04/05/2018 19:05

How incredibly brave they are to go against the TRAs! And publicly outing yourself as trans when all you would like to do is get on with your life in order to stand up for women's rights, that takes guts. I am grateful that they've joined forces and added their voices to ours Flowers

OJ won't care btw, I have had this conversation with him and it makes no difference. He's not interested in the real, difficult struggles of transsexuals or women's rights.

GardenGeek I shall try to keep this in mind, it is an excellent argument to make.

lightthedarkness · 04/05/2018 19:05

A sincere thank you to them all - very courageous in the light of all the trouble this will cause them.

invisibleoldwoman · 04/05/2018 19:06

@habobo

The letter explains this. Below is a quote.

“Transsexual people undergo a meaningful transition, including hormone therapy and surgery. We fear that these proposals will not only put women’s rights at risk but also damage our credibility in society. We are already seeing our right to define as “transsexual” being challenged by transgender activists who seek to remove this distinction”

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 04/05/2018 19:10

And publicly outing yourself as trans when all you would like to do is get on with your life in order to stand up for women's rights, that takes guts.

Definitely. Real guts and principles.

Terfulike · 04/05/2018 19:12

Great letter Flowers

habobo · 04/05/2018 19:12

So transexual people are people who have physically transitioned and transgender might include those who haven't I see.

Jayceedove · 04/05/2018 19:13

Thank you, but not necessary.

I am only saying what I believe and what was important to say.

Sending the letter was Debbie's idea. And I had no hesitation to agree when she asked me because it is the truth.

I put my username because all discussion of trans matters on the net is done using that same one. So anyone disagreeing with me (and I expect that will be one or two) know who I am and can ask me to justify it to their face that way.

I know a few of you genuinely felt that I was playing both sides against the middle on here by also posting on Angels.

I can appreciate why. But I truly wasn't.

That forum has a role to play and is more moderate than many others. But it became increasingly clear from my time on here that you could not be in the middle of this important discussion. There are too many irreconcilable factors.

I decided on the facts and the best way to protect women, who must retain the right to safe spaces, including from those with GRCs where appropriate.

And to protect transgender people who in my view need to be cautious and guided by psychiatric counselling and medical advice rather than simply step into the unknown of transitioning because you feel it is the right thing to do.

Assessment helps guard against someone from doing this inappropriately or with ill intent. It protects women (and men) from being expected to accommodate transitioners who do not have dysphoria then having legally changed gender.

And it protects trans people from themselves in possibly acting too hastily and not being ready to make this huge step into the unknown.

Changing sex is never possible biologically.

But legally changing your 'sex' should never be treated as lightly as changing your socks. And self ID was in danger of creating just that mind set which cannot benefit anybody. Certainly not women.

Wanderabout · 04/05/2018 19:13

OJ won't care btw, I have had this conversation with him and it makes no difference. He's not interested in the real, difficult struggles of transsexuals or women's rights.

He makes that very clear. He is a hack. When this all implodes he'll find something new to rant mindless aggressive tantrummy mantras about.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/05/2018 19:15

hobobo

This is Stonewalls definition of trans, as.you can see it encompasses pretty much everybody.

^An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, denderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.^

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t

Juells · 04/05/2018 19:15

Great letter. Very brave to expose themselves to the abuse that they know they'll receive.

AbsintheFriends · 04/05/2018 19:15

A grateful acknowledgement from me of the courage that has taken.

This is the way forward, and the attitude that will bring women to stand alongside transwomen and assist in their fight against the common enemy of toxic masculinity.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 04/05/2018 19:16

Wow! Thank you to all who signed this. I too am surprised that The Guardian published it, maybe, just maybe, the eyes and ears are opening about the so called ‘right side of history’.

We can but hope but we needed this right now. It really messes up the them and us polarised positions the transcultists wanted everyone to believe in.

Theinconstantgardener · 04/05/2018 19:18

Thanks to all who signedFlowers

Wanderabout · 04/05/2018 19:18

Also Flowers Jaycee. Or Gin. Whatever your preference.

aaarrrggghhhh · 04/05/2018 19:21
Star
Popchyk · 04/05/2018 19:21

"This is problematic when such male-bodied people, including sexual fetishists, demand the rights afforded to women as a protected sex, including access to their private spaces."

That reference to sexual fetishists is really important.

Gets it right out in the open.

Well done to everyone involved.