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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Really like this video from a trans woman with very good insight.

27 replies

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 27/04/2018 17:16

I saw this refreshing ted talk and thought some of you might like it

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 27/04/2018 18:36

Also worth watching Rose of Dawn's videos.
www.youtube.com/user/AshleeK9/videos

Ekphrasis · 27/04/2018 18:37

Apart from the cis, yes it was very insightful, thank you. I did make me think, mostly as she's clearly thought a lot about the reality of who she is and how she's not a woman but is a trans woman. As a result I feel there can be a shared level of understanding and respect.

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 27/04/2018 18:54

Rowan they are very interesting.

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Lefthanddown · 27/04/2018 19:22

Hey this is Rya, also has some thoughtful videos. The one where she admits to recognising that she falls under the autogynaephile label is moving.

Ekphrasis · 27/04/2018 19:59

I love Rya

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 27/04/2018 20:48

Yes very interesting. Thanks Left

OP posts:
GollyGoshGreat · 28/04/2018 00:51

Love this! Such a self aware person and easy to listen too.

R0wantrees · 28/04/2018 15:40

Other important trans women's voices to listen to:

Debbie Hayton
debbiehayton.wordpress.com

SevenHex
twitter.com/seven_hex/status/985219754540625921

Katrina Harrisson

AngryBird
twitter.com/RadFemAngryBird/status/989509403324841984

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 28/04/2018 15:57

Love this! Such a self aware person and easy to listen too.

Isn’t she. The only trans person I actually know in person is fab too. I hate to see TRAs being the voices that are negatively overwhelming the narrative.

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R0wantrees · 28/04/2018 16:52

full thread from @RadFemAngryBird in response to activist's attempts to shut down WPUK meeting in Oxford.
(I've taken out the # for easier reading)

twitter.com/i/moments/990001689422979077

l‘m not condemning the meeting of @WomansPlaceUK but the shameful campaign of bullying and intimidation organised by the students and transactivists outside of the QuakerHouse.
I’ve studied in Oxford, once a capital of freethought and freespeech, known for its fair debates with respect to the opinions of one’s opponents and refreshingly skilful and witty arguments challenging their views.

Bullying, although surfacing occasionally, was never welcome, especially, in the LGBT circles having too many victims of it knowing only too well how much it hurts. But last night the tables have turned - and the bullied became the bullies

I founded TransOxford in 2015 to promote the greater unity and more extensive communications between the separate transgender groups some of which had no idea of the others existing in the same city.

It eventually became a connecting hub between the trans groups in London Brighton, Reading, Swindon, Bristol, Bath.

I was promoting unity and understanding between these groups and the society around them, acceptance and equality and, most importantly, social integration of trans people with the rest of the world.

After all, we all are humans and have more things which unite us than divide us. I stepped down after a while having my doubts about the direction transgender movement was taking and being too busy with my motherhood duties.

Being a woman, i’m a feminist. In the eyes of some radical feminists, I may be a ‘delusional male’ which doesn’t bother me. I look like a woman, live as a woman, accepted by the world at large as a woman, and that’s enough for me, I need no further justification.

My friends include feminists who care for the real cause: women’s safety, health, equal opportunities, empowerment of women and recognition of their achievements.

In today’s Britain where misogyny isn’t a crime but transphobia is, we have too little time to discuss biology and chromosomes. We need to talk about the more important issues. And yes, we all need to talk...

But every time I suggest this to the trans activists, I hear the same arguments in reply: they won’t listen to us, there’s no room for debate, transrights aren’t debatable, they only invite cisgender people...

I believe that ‘cisgender’ and ‘terf’ are as much hurtful and derogatory terms as ‘trannies’. Let’s avoid that language!

I think @WomansPlaceUK do invite everyone as long as they have something to contribute to the debate. I know a number of transsexuals who attended and spoke at their events (and were immediately branded as apostates by the transcommunity).

‘No debate’ is the only option? What are you going to do with so many women and transsexuals who support @WomansplaceUK ? Eliminate them? Charge them with hatecrime after your lobbyists push through another piece of legislation?
Inviting anyone for an open debate is not a hatecrime. @WomansPlaceUK has only five things on their agenda they want to discuss. Only five. Is that too much?

They want an open debate on how the new transrights might affect womensrights - what’s wrong with that? It is obvious that their rights will be affected in some way - so why not discuss their concerns in a civilised and evidence based way?

Women only spaces, women only services, gender statistics - all these things matter to a lot of women, men and transgender folks - and need to be discussed.
I think the best way for transwomen to stop transphobia is to start acting like women, looking like women (which would resolve issues of misgendering and access to the women’s #toilets), stop forcing their way into womanhood, wait until you’re accepted & welcomed.

...and if you dislike social expectations of you as a woman (dressing/looking/acting as society expects a woman) - join the #feminist ongoing battle against the patriarchy! Women have a lot in common, so if transwomen are women - they should be able to relate!

There’s so much we could do together.
I’m against transphobia.
I’m against misogyny.
I’m against bullying.
I’m against childish tantrums.
I’m against #patriarchy.

I’m for the gender equality.
I’m for the humankind unity.
I’m for #reedom of speech.
I’m for a dialogue, debate, creativity, wit and peace.
I love you all x
~the end~

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 28/04/2018 18:44

Very likeable. Thanks for linking OP

buckeejit · 28/04/2018 20:00

Really liked Rya-enjoyed the other 2 also. Will have a look at the others & try to find them on Twitter. Such a refreshing change to see these kind of links on here

sonlypuppyfat · 28/04/2018 20:03

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IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 28/04/2018 20:13

sonly

Is that the most notable thing you got from that?

sonlypuppyfat · 28/04/2018 20:22

This reply has been deleted

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IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 28/04/2018 20:28

I see.

loudaloneknows · 28/04/2018 21:10

Rya is great. Just watched three videos back to back.

Have you seen this one: about learning about gender stereotypes from rad fems and considering detransition.

ocelot41 · 28/04/2018 21:23

I saw the first two videos - really like both and they've helped me out my finger on something I haven't been able to articulate before. I want to support transexual women - I don't fully understand gender dysphoria, and I want to listen to those who have experienced it, because I can see this is a huge, real thing for which many people have made huge sacrifices. Its this 'I am whatever I claim to be today' mentality which just seems like so much horseshit.

If you want to claim another label like nonbinary or queer, fine. But dont lump it all under 'trans' because becoming a transwoman really is not the same as a haircut or a frock or da feelz. I am also worried that some of the transactivists have put back the cause of transexuals by decades.

I hope I have always been pretty sympathetic (one of my first loves who I dated as a man transitioned some time ago, and I could see that they were very, very troubled indeed in a male body. If they could have made that feeling of being a lie go away without transitioning, they really, really would have done as it was unbelievably difficult). But even I am really fucked off with the very insensitive, domineering behaviour and attitudes of some activists. I particularly object to being relabelled as cis, told to shut about about biological issues (and related oppression), or be backed into a position where I am positioned as the aggressor if I insist on women's refuges being spaces where no one with a functioning penis should be.

Lefthanddown · 28/04/2018 23:15

I have watched Rya's detransitioning video. It's quite sad that Transexual's are having to question themselves to that extent in order to challenge the trans narrative.

Having come to this debate from a live and let live approach, I appreciate the perspective and input from Transexual's on here, twitter and YouTube, alongside that of GC feminists, it's helped to formulate my views.

I enjoy Debbie Hayton's writing
debbiehayton.wordpress.com

I saw Angry Birds tweet earlier, it's a shame a group set up in good faith as a support network has been taken over by TRA's.

ocelot41 · 29/04/2018 08:41

I just finished watching a few of Rya's videos and feel I learned a lot. I am really glad that transwomen like her are online, explaining their position to us as otherwise it's the loudest and most hateful groups who get heard.

I also like the way she advocates that transactivists listen better to women born as women, who have questions about safety concerns and about questions of oppression based on biological sex. I would love to meet her - what a great, reasonable, decent person and so brave!

I would be happy to learn more about what it is like to be trans. Really I would. I am a feminist, bi and disabled. So I should be a natural ally. At the same time, being shouted down makes me want to withdraw my support - it smacks of the worst kind of bullying.

For context: I am someone who has worked with female survivors of domestic abuse, childhood abuse and drug rape. If you don't understand the need for those fragile women to have healing spaces which they absolutely know to be safe, then you really need to work on your compassion and grasp of what male violence does. Big Time.

Lefthanddown · 29/04/2018 09:34

Ocelot I agree with what you say, but I'm also worried that the public, in sufficient numbers, won't wake up to what is happening and the legal implications.
Trans activists have got this far by not talking/listening to women, so where's the incentive to start now?

I sent some article links to a friend in the US, she wasn't aware of the debate, or any of the legal changes in the US/Canada. So much is going under the radar of most people.

I read this article earlier and I'm worried as to where it all ends and if there is a backlash, who ends up in the firing line.

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/transclassroom/21331#.WuWA8cnTU0P

ocelot41 · 29/04/2018 11:18

I think that's fair Left. I don't have a problem with schools having a policy to prevent discrimination against any minority group, or bullying of any questioning child. Basically be kind, treat others with the respect you would wish to be given yourself. Third 'open to all' spaces available for changing rooms and loos.

I would have a problem with schools trying to define what a 'woman' is as it seems there's no agreement on that yet. I also don't want them endorsing pushing youngsters down any particular route as young people are inherently pretty fluid about all sorts of things and there is a lot of gender stereotyping floating around. I don't (and never did) present as 'feminine' according to some of the definitions I have seen. I don't want any child thinking that they have to decide 'right now' about anything. And I don't want any girls feeling like they don't have safe, private spaces any more than I want a questioning child to feel harassed. I have long used disabled facilities because they cater better for my physical needs and others' needs (I take longer so don't want to cubicle block!) Its not that hard to envisage something similar is it?

ocelot41 · 29/04/2018 11:25

Actually, come to think of it: given that there are relatively few people in any one school who are disabled in ways which necessitate using special facilities, and given that those facilities tend to be solo use with a lockable door, why don't we just convert disabled loos into 'equal access' or 'inclusive facilities' for all. We might need a couple more so disabled people don't feel displaced. But the numbers of transpeople (so far as we know) is pretty tiny. So that might be a viable solution to keep everyone happy?

R0wantrees · 29/04/2018 11:39

ocelot41
There was a recent case in a school when a pupil had ( I believe ) access to gender neutral school loos following their identification as a girl.
This was successfully challenged on the basis that it was unfairly excluding them from spaces reserved for girls.
A narrative of the process of the successful challenge was described here:
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

ocelot41 · 29/04/2018 11:41

Oh dear Rowan, another sensible solution hits the dust.