Spartacus believes in biology.

[HairyBallTheorem]

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

Yep, never thought I would have to say it but I am Spartacus.

Thanks @0phelia

TRAs can argue over pronouns and whether saying 'you guys' is offensive, because they have nowhere else logical to take their argument.

Language evolves over time, but the fundamental principle of human biology doesn't and never will.

I am still Spartacus, although I'm waiting for the funicular as I've buggered up my knee.

Wow did anyone else watch woman's video with Ben Shapiro? Zoey Tur saying if you don't say my preferred pronouns you're going home in an ambulance?

Also i'm Spartacus.

Maybe it could be called Mumsnet Mount, like at Wimbledon. Though I'm fairly sure that hill won't be big enough.

I am Spartacus.

I cross out the word 'gender' on every form I have to fill in, and put sex.
I will continue to do so. It is not acceptable for organisations to display their ignorance in the belief that they are being gentile or inclusive.

Words matter.

A generation on from 1984 we have to fight Newspeak all over again.

Yep. Still Spartacus. Biology is not bigotry.

Another Spartacus here too.
Treat all with respect, use neutral terms rather than pronouns. However biology is biology, sex is observed at birth not assigned. I don’t feel like a woman I feel like me!

Recently getting back into sewing I’ll run up a picnic rug if someone brings a flask of tea

I am Spartacus. Women world-wide are persecuted, owned like slaves, abused, killed ( even in utero ) solely because of our biology. It is not possible to change sex. Like most women, have sympathy with anyone feeling discomfort in their own body, but sex is fixed at conception and is immutable.

I am Spartacus #biologymatters

I'm Spartacus becase those who are exerting such incredible pressure to deny biology are causing massive harm to society and some of the most vulnerable people.

I'm Spartacus.

Of course there only two sexes. MNHQ understand that, obviously.

It is no one's intention to target trans people by pointing this out. Literally no one.

It's because women suffer due to their sex, therefore the distinction has to be ring fenced. Using the only criteria that identifies them. Biology.

And it wouldn't even be necessary, if there wasn't a determined cohort hellbent on blurring the distinction between the sexes. Actively damaging women's ability to address their disadvantage.

This is a response to the dismantling women's of rights.

Feminists did not go looking for this.

@Viago T
Wow did anyone else watch woman's video with Ben Shapiro? Zoey Tur saying if you don't say my preferred pronouns you're going home in an ambulance? shock

That's what shocked me - and no one intervened and all pounced on Ben and mobbed him - even Dr Drew didn't stop the threat - as though they were justified - it was pure aggression and intimidation. Hate this phrase but you can see the kool-aid in action. I followed it up and apparently Ben tried to lay charges because Zoe threatened him again off camera. The police in California declined to prosecute, although accepted there was a strong case to, because Trans protected minority. That is ridiculous - Zoe is an ex Navy Seal for gods sake.

Shapiro speaks about to Joe Rogan - they are speaking out (but more from fear of having generation of sterile boys).

I am Spartacus too. Happy for people to live how they want, and the more feminine men the better but science & facts matter.

I see it as a slippery slope from being gaslighted into using preferred pronouns against common usage of English and biological reality into gaslighting of other kinds. It is anti free speech. I also note that the gaslighting appears to be very much directed at women, not men, so even here biology appears to matter.

I teach my children not to lie. I will not lie.

Agree Datun.

@Datun

This is a response to the dismantling women's of rights.

Feminists did not go looking for this.

Precisely

woman unbelievable. Yes I couldn't believe everybody just accepted what ZT said.

Where is the video with Shapiro? Viago

I'd like to be Spartacus, and hope my sex- definition doesn't exclude me.

I too cross out 'gender' on forms where I can.

I don't 'feel' like I am a man. (though sometimes feel 'manly'... ) . I just am so, by virtue of biological fact. I am no subset of 'man'. I am one.

Peaked since experiencing real breathlessness at some local authority/ sports centre idiot manager announcing a review of facilities to "keep up with the times" and the hash tag 'inclusive'. Dangerous, smug little fucker.

Hello everyone.

I think the key thing here - and the position I've been banging on about very publicly over the last week - is that Mumsnet believes in and stands for freedom of speech and diverse opinion. That includes the right to discuss the issue of self-identity and opinions around and consequences of that.

At the same time we are committed to our moderation guidelines - i.e. that we will remove hate speech, keep it civil and delete posts which are mean-spirited, deliberately inflammatory or personal attacks (which is in effect our moderation policy across the whole of Mumsnet).

So we're not talking about deleting posts where people say "I believe transwomen are male" But a thread which is specifically about a named individual who's self identified as a women and which repeatedly calls that person he or a man is potentially hurtful and unkind and we'd class it as a personal attack. (In retrospect I think it might have been better to delete the whole India Willoughby thread yesterday rather than select individual posts for deletion, as I can see why that's caused confusion.)

It's the effect of the thread in totality that feels mean and can make people feel under attack, rather than any one post in isolation.

Lots of people have spoken about WeGoHigh as a principle. I think that's a fantastic idea. Here's why: Mumsnet is committed to freedom of speech, we can see the importance of this issue and we want to provide a space for discussion of it to happen - but it makes our job much, much harder if things get personal. Harder because it obviously encourages external attacks and trolls, harder because it makes it easier for people to ignore the substantive points and to label Mumsnet as transphobic, harder because it makes it a lot easier for advertisers who effectively support the site to say I don't want to be associated with this.

I hope you can see where we're coming from. We've taken a stand on this - and made our lives quite complicated tbh - because we absolutely believe it's the right thing to do. We're asking for your support to help MN 'go high' (even in the face of at times considerable provocation) and to help us maintain a civil debate; and we'll endeavour to be as consistent as we can be in our implementation of our mod policy and to admit when we've made a bad call.

Have just watched the Ben Shapiro video. Absolutely unbelievable!

For those on Twitter, it is worth following @RoseofDawn who has recently set up a twitter account
& watching this:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=EG3LXr1fe4Y

WeGoHigh versus biological fact.

This is not going to end well!

These are the short videos:

Some other people who agree with this stance:

Jordan Peterson 2 min video re pronouns www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9TwrXRUa_I

“Corruption of speech matters - look back in history at totalitarian regimes. I refuse to repeat that history. I will speak the truth. These pronouns are made up and I will not be forced to say them”

Why are we mainstreaming delusion? Ben Shapiro – 2 mins video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgQy70_LPS4