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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Bristol Uni SU moves to ban TERFs

72 replies

terfsRus · 01/03/2018 22:22

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/03/01/bristol-university-students-seek-ban-terf-speakers-question/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

I suspect the scales will fall from most people's eyes about this soon...

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womanhuman · 01/03/2018 22:27

Oh but this is a gloriously unambiguous para:

Terf, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists, is generally used as a derogatory term to describe those who believe that “identifying” as a woman is not the same as being born a woman. It can also be used to refer to people who are deemed to hold “transphobic” views.

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thebewilderness · 01/03/2018 22:31

The so called feminist society wants to ban feminists. Criminy!

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/03/2018 22:34

I think that's an awesome article - how can anyone read that and not think the whole thing is bonkers?!

This is my favourite section:

The motion was put forward by the university’s feminist society following an event that was held earlier this month in Bristol to discuss proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

The Bristol event invited people to “come and have your say on this controversial proposal”, asking: “Will this reform spell the end to single sex spaces and the provision of single sex services, such as those provided by rape crisis centres and women’s refuges?

“Will the changes make it harder to gather accurate data on the pay gap between men and women; on domestic violence against women; and on the health services women require?”

A Bristol University PhD student, who specialises in violence against women and girls, chaired the event. The university’s feminist society said that opinions expressed at the meeting “amount to hate speech” and the promotion of such views “endangers trans women”.

I was also very amused by the use of "Terfs" as opposed to "TERFS" - makes us sound like a gang

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HerFemaleness · 01/03/2018 22:36

Lib fems. People who want to ban certain viewpoints because transwomen feel threatened by them. Think survivors of DV/rape, and the female prison population should STFU and be educated if they feel threatened by the presence of a transwoman.

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bellasuewow · 01/03/2018 22:36

Those crazy tin foil people who think that one does not become a woman by merely saying you feel like one........
I am really disappointed that so many feminist groups are swept up in this to the extent that they want to ban free speech and ‘subversive’ views such as you cannot magically change sex.
When this proves totally unworkable and bonkers how will all these ‘feminists’ feel then?

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turnipfarmers · 01/03/2018 22:39

'The lunatics are running the asylum'

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PlonitbatPlonit · 01/03/2018 22:42

Anyone who wants to see what was actually said in the talks at the Woman's Place UK meeting in Bristol can subscribe to the WPUK youtube channel (talks by Jo Bartosch and Stephanie Davies-Arai just out, with more to follow). www.youtube.com/channel/UCzFqsUqDzyXEQMJVy42NwUw

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shedalight · 01/03/2018 22:43

We need to remember that most of the feminist groups in universities have been colonised by TiMs (like the WEP) so they are unlikely to centre women in their feminism

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/03/2018 22:43

The comments are pretty heartening too...

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TerfyMcTerface · 01/03/2018 22:52

As an academic, I think it's high time that students were made to sign a contract when they start university, in which they acknowledge and agree to abide by the institution's free speech obligations. Anyone who wants a safe space can stay at their childhood home with their fucking teddy bear. Universities need to stamp down hard on this no-platforming nonsense, and withdraw funding and room /building space from students' unions if they attempt it. The trouble is that senior managers in universities are utterly craven, and allow the customers to call the shots.

These stupid girls would also do well to remember that many of them wouldn't even be at university if it wasn't for the activism of the second-wave feminists they despise.

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Terflonnonstickpan · 01/03/2018 22:52

I feel like my mother must have felt 40 years ago when I got pissed of that it was always my job to set the table and do the ironing for my three brothers.
Er no. I was pissed of then because I was expected to be a servant to men in the home.
These foolish girls want us all to be slaves to men always everywhere.

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Terflonnonstickpan · 01/03/2018 23:08

@TerfyMcTerface
As an academic, I think it's high time that students were made to sign a contract when they start university, in which they acknowledge and agree to abide by the institution's free speech obligations. Anyone who wants a safe space can stay at their childhood home with their fucking teddy bear. Universities need to stamp down hard on this no-platforming nonsense, and withdraw funding and room /building space from students' unions if they attempt it. The trouble is that senior managers in universities are utterly craven, and allow the customers to call the shots.

I am just about to start a project at high profile uni. The work I am doing won't work if we accept this unthinkingly, I am going to tell them that. I'm fairly teflon coated in that this is a bit out of sector for me, I'm normally working in red blooded investment banking where relationships men have with other men in dresses are something bankers may well pay for but they don't tell anyone about so it's going to be interesting for me being in a uni environment where fetish seems to be massively in your face whether you like it or not, nor are they really understanding that they are even participating in a fetish. I am very interested in the understanding of consent boundaries here. If you were willing to PM me that world be great.

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cista · 01/03/2018 23:26

Words fail me! I am embarrassed for anyone, past and present, who is associated with that university!

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BeatriceJoanna · 02/03/2018 00:53

Just saw this on Twitter.

What the fuck is the point of people going to university if they're not prepared to even encounter ideas they don't like?
What is the point of universities, themselves, if they're not teaching students to be open to debate?

It's a long time since I was a student but we used to relish debate. We liked inviting 'controversial' speakers and having a good argument. However did these kids get to be so precious?

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Xenophile · 02/03/2018 07:08

If it passes, I have no doubt it will be my University next.

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fruitlovingmonkey · 02/03/2018 07:19

How depressing.
Whatever happened to Jo Johnson’s plans to force universities to stop no-platforms and safe spaces? Has the new HE minister taken it on?

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TerfyMcTerface · 02/03/2018 07:33

The article is quite unclear actually. Despite this:

“Any events which involve collaborating with groups that hold Terf views are now barred from taking place on Bristol university grounds, according to the motion which was passed earlier this week.”

it seems that this is a ban from the SU, not the University? The final paragraph suggests that the University itself will not be banning anyone. SUs do not have the power to decide what happens on university campuses.

Universities should take disciplinary action against students who try to silence, bully and misrepresent other members of the academic community. If academics themselves engaged in this kind of behaviour, there would be consequences.

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LizzieSiddal · 02/03/2018 07:42

Who was the Govt minister who said recently that he was going to bring in laws to protect free speach at unis?

Maybe they need to know what’s happening at Bristol.

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AngryAttackKittens · 02/03/2018 07:49

As an academic, I think it's high time that students were made to sign a contract when they start university, in which they acknowledge and agree to abide by the institution's free speech obligations. Anyone who wants a safe space can stay at their childhood home with their fucking teddy bear.

I second this motion. Universities are supposed to challenge your views, it's part of how you learn things. Students are mostly legal adults and if they think that a particular event will make them uncomfortable they are quite free to choose not to attend. Coddling them like they're giant babies is not what a university is for.

I can't even imagine what happens when these fools try to join the debating society.

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TerfyMcTerface · 02/03/2018 07:50

It was Jo Johnson, Lizzie. He was going to introduce fines, not laws (universities already have a statutory obligation to uphold freedom of speech, which they are clearly in breach of). But he is not Universities Minister any more, and it’s not clear what is now happening.

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LizzieSiddal · 02/03/2018 07:52

Oh that’s a shame Terfy.

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/03/2018 08:14

bristol.ac.uk/news/2018/february/freedom-of-speech.html

Universities are places of research and learning, where debate and dissent are not only permitted but expected, and where controversial and even offensive ideas may be put forward, listened to and challenged. Intellectual freedom is fundamental to our mission and values. Our freedom of speech policy underlines the vital importance of our right as members of a free and democratic society to speak openly without fear of censorship or limitation, provided that this right is exercised responsibly, within the law, and with respect for others who may have differing views. We do not condone attempts to silence discussion before it has even taken place or the use of stereotyping or threatening language to prevent debate

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hackmum · 02/03/2018 08:19

Terfy - the very first thing the new universities minister, Sam Gyimah, did, though, was make a speech about the importance of free speech in universities. So all is not lost.

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BeyondDeadlySiren · 02/03/2018 08:30

That's a very clear news article :)

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TerfyMcTerface · 02/03/2018 08:52

I missed that hackmum, but it's somewhat reassuring. I do think that there is a problem with universities themselves, not just SUs. My university has interpreted the 2010 Equalities Act as conferring "the right not to be offended". To exercise an academic's right to freedom of speech, one would therefore have to be prepared to potentially test the conflict between these rights via a disciplinary or even legal process. So there is a barrier there to freedom of speech - whether presented by the Equalities Act, or by the University's interpretation of it.

On trans matters, my university (and I assume the same has happened elsewhere) has gone full-steam ahead with removing all single-sex provision, without consultation of university members. This means that the significant numbers of female Muslim students presumably cannot now use the swimming pool or sports facilities. It also means that, when there is not sufficient accommodation at the start of an academic year and students have to share, a female student could conceivably find herself sharing a room with a biological male. None of this has been up for discussion

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