I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

Great work OP. Awesome. Forget random acts of kindness, #randomactsofmanliness

I genuinely hope this gets picked up by the press

"I wonder how many of us it would take dripping blood in the water, in the jacuzzi, and across the changing room floors for them to reconsider."

More men need to understand biology is completely irrelevant.

Like leaking man chests and manpons.

toomanytolist

Whilst I have every sympathy for you and your child, you and they are as much a victim of this as women are.

This isn't about individuals.

It never has been. It's about the wholesale selling of women's rights down the swanny.

And the fact that your child lives in such a fucked up society that they want to reject their sex by surgically altering their body.

Without gender stereotypes being because rigourously enforced, making people feel the mismatch between those and the body they are born with, they would have nothing transition to or from.

Gender dysphoria is a fairly modern phenomena, getting worse all the time.

I applaud you too OP - think there needs to be a backlash to counter the invasion of women's safe spaces. I do like the idea of #ManFriday

Just a bit worried about some unintended consequences, eg questioning the need for women's safe spaces at all

That’s one thing that really genuinely makes me angry about the so-called ‘inclusiveness’ of the trans ideology cult.

Like fuck is it about inclusivity and ‘widening bandwiths’. In fact all it does is reinforce (yet again) and, further, actively impose such strict and rigid male/female roles that children and teenagers do not feel free to just be a boy who likes X and feels X, or a girl who doesn’t like X and would rather do X. It’s damaging and it’s wrong.

But that’s a discussion for another day, I guess.

What I find horrendous regarding period blood in swimming pools is that women are told to do various things to stop this from happening but when it comes to sperm ejaculate there is no worry about this as you won't get pregnant and the chemicals in the pool render the sperm harmless. hmm

I never want to swim in a public pool eva eva again....as a man or as a women. Nope not with that floating around in the water

MANPONS!!

ManFriday reminded me of a conversation I had with a person who works at a very large company and was explaining that one of their employees who is born male self identifies on a daily basis and this is accommodated by the manager and team - on any day they find out whether they have to use the male or female name, which loos he/she will be using etc etc This has been going on for a couple of years.

Yy. "My child has gender dysphoria" - that's sad but doesn't mean self-ID is a good idea for society.

I feel like all this stuff is only going to get worse the more we say "men = this" and "women = that". Why as a species do we have these fucking constructive notions of gender anyway?

Why are we digging deeper and making a generation of kids think they have to dice their bodies and minds up to feel better? There's not even enough evidence to say that transitioning helps gender dysphoria all the time anyway.

*Constructive. Thank you phone.

Words fail me Mrs F. very glad 'they? He? She?' are / is not my colleague.

Interesting idea, OP. You’re very brave. I, like a couple of others, have some reservations, however. I’m mostly wondering what the reaction would be, ultimately, from males. I would agree that most normal guys wouldn’t want women in their sexual-segregated spaces either, but we don’t have an issue with the normal guys, for the most part. We have issues with TRAs.

I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t playing into their hands. Not the premise of showcasing how stupid it is. THAT I think is brilliant, and I applaud OP for what she has done so far. I’m mostly concerned about the going topless (or bottomless) aspect. We are already incredibly sexualised as women. That’s part of our opression. And I’m not sure how seriously we would be taken if loads of us suddenly appeared topless in male spaces (read: public spaces). I’m mostly thinking of things such as SlutWalk, where many of the women attend in good faith because they believe they are making a point, but their voices are generally dismissed and their breasts are focused on. Ultimately, whatever way we gain some ground, it will be because the media has reported it. And the media would focus on the breasts. How many “normal” men, therefore, would pay any attention beyond dismissing the headline and moving on? Would they actually listen any more? Would it matter?

I guess I’m trying to say that while I think we should be proclaiming to self-id and make things difficult for men (golf clubs, Masons etc. Plus the period thing was a grand idea), a big part of me is raising an eyebrow at the topless part. It just seems too close to lib-fem acts that end up objectifying themselves for my liking.

And I’m not saying I’m right. I’m just exploring how I feel about this.

Sex-segregated* damn phone!

Hats off to you Op - good job!

It does seem like male and female stereotypes have become so entrenched that people think they have to change their biology if they don't meet the requirements of their gender stereotype. It is so sad when what we should be doing is changing peoples ideas of what it is to be a man or a woman and that is anything you damn well please! You don't have to change your body to be who you want to be (excepting the minority with genuine body dysphoria). What is wrong with being a man in a dress or a butch woman? Nothing at all. What is wrong is saying you are a woman because you are a man wearing a dress and trying to undo decades of progress in women's rights. I feel like my head will explode with all of this as I really feel the work needs to be done in undoing stereotypes and creating a tolerant, accepting world for our dc to grow up in.

OP you are my new hero. Honestly. Mind blown

I agree regarding the topless thing, Writers but I suspect very few women would be willing to do that. I'm always a bit at all the 'free the nipple^ stuff because all the men see is a bunch of impotently cross women with their tits out and it's a bit of entertainment for them.

But I do completely agree with the whole self ID-ing thing and forcing men to think about what it actually means for them. That is whwn people will stand up and say something.

Definitely up for a swim-in the Hampstead mens pond. I peak transed when reading about the women only pond not being women only anymore.

Discussed all this with my lovely DH. He is very supportive. We are wondering if we should go swimming in the men's pond together. Then in the women's pond together. Selfie in both just to show the ridiculousness of it all.

And rather than having a mass swim-in we could do 4 Sundays in a row in July, perhaps. So we gave safety in numbers, it's a hassle for the lifeguards. But we are making our point. That sex segregated facilities is OK and should continue.

I agree about the topless stuff too.

The focus should absolutely be on the stupidity of self ID - present as female, make no changes whatsoever & yet 'identify as a man' as that's apparently enough.

Would applying waterproof body paint over top half solve the problem/ embarrassment of going topless on the mass swim??

I don't think body paint would be allowed in the ponds. It's not like a swimming pool!
Just wear your normal costume. It shows how crazy the self ID thing is.

What about binding the breasts, with bandages? Not too tightly of course.

Just go as you normally would in a swimming costume, but self-define as a man - this is a far stronger message re the ridiculousness of it all imo.

I agree that the focus would be sexualised. Probably end up with the Sun reporting it as a titillating protest to keep everyone abreast of rights for the girls...or some such bolleux...

No one has to go topless in any mass swim in. Plenty of MRAs don't change any aspect yet claim to be female on any given day. Women can do the exact same.

Now, one of us needs to apply for the role of trans officer at a CLP or Students' Union

This is fantastic. I would love to take part in something in my area. Will check out thread above next. The poster who mentioned an unmanly squeal in cold water made me think of the Python scene at the stoning, are there any women here, no no no, gradually getting deeper in voice.