It's not just "safe spaces" where I don't want transwomen

[k2p2k2tog]

I have just had an email from my daughter's school about increasing activity levels in teenage girls, tackling the obesity epidemic, offering experiences to girls to try a new sport.

So the council has teamed up with a local judo club to offer GIRLS of Secondary school age in Scotland (so by this stage in the school year aged 12 to 18) the chance to try judo in a female-only environment, with female coaches. Fantastic idea.

This is the sort of thing where Councils will be be forced to accept boys identifying as girls. Boys who are much bigger and stronger than my 12 year old daughter. So what will happen? The girls won't go to the class, because they're not daft and won't want to be thrown about by a mahoosive 6 foot something transgirl.

And if by some chance they do go and they compete against girls find they’re really actually quite good and want to compete professionally... they’ll have every chance of being beaten to any medals by f2m transgender people who’ve had all the privilege of testosterone, bigger skeleton, denser bones etc etc.

I think women really are being thrown under a bus. What’s the point of the authorities bleating on about girls being disengaged from sport when they’re taking away the things that give girls a chance to actually compete fairly?

Yeh women should not have to compete against transmale2females. Who'd bother entering?!

Agree completely- my DD plays rugby I don't want her playing against boys/men it's so dangerous in a contact sport.

I agree k2p2. I'm also in Scotland and worry about our government's desperate need to look progressive and cool wrt the self id agenda. As a side note, I hope your daughter takes it up- my son does judo and the number of girls doing it drops dramatically as they get older.

Agree in general on the competition thing - judo and other combat sports are sorted by weight so you'd never get the situation of a 100kg transwoman competing against a 60kg woman.

But this is more about being a teenage girl, awkward, self-conscious, not wanting to exercise, uncomfortable among boys. Feeling that breaking sweat and getting red in the face is unfeminine. So schools and councils recognise that issue and try to put on women only activities in an attempt to keep girls fit and healthy. And the way things are going, they will be legally obliged to accept anyone into the sessions who says they identify as female.

Ha - I got that the wrong way round . F2m in a men’s competition wouldn’t have much chance of winning!

I might be missing something but wouldn't this invoke the sporting exemption on grounds of physical strength, much greater than at primary school stage? I wouldn't want DD doing a very physical sport with someone physically male either.

In Scotland they are very much going down the "anyone who says they are female will be treated as such" rule so no, at this low level "taster" session introducing girls to a new sport, there is every possibility that they'd accept a transgirl. It's not about competing, it's about new sporting opportunities and free sessions to encourage girls not to stop being interested in sport.

And in fact they'd be falling over themselves to offer a transgirl a place as it shows how right on they are.

What is the female girls just united and refused to compete with any trans participants?

Just stood together (perhaps pre-organised) and said "no. We'll compete fairly and squarely against each other, but not unfairly against a male, be-penised individual"

?? Should we start direct action like this maybe. Calm, rational, factual peaceful protest. Every. Single. Time.

Isn’t this all a bit hypothetical? I am on the fence as some of the trans stuff really bothers me but at the same time isn’t the number of teenage boys wanting to be girls who also want free judo really a really small number?

Yeah it's hypothetical. But it's pretty much the first real life example I've come across which I can relate these changes proposed under the proposed Scottish legislation to my life, and to my daughter's life and clearly understand the impact it would have on her.

Yeah the sport issue is completely batshit (like most of it, tbh). We have the sexes separate for a reason. And that reason really is not invalidated by 'gender feelz'. Its unfair for the males to compete against females (past the age of is it 9 or so?) and ontop of fairness, it can actually be dangerous depending on the sport too.

@Sohardtochooseausername Isn’t this all a bit hypothetical? I am on the fence as some of the trans stuff really bothers me but at the same time isn’t the number of teenage boys wanting to be girls who also want free judo really a really small number?

It's the thin edge of the wedge though. Or boiling frogs, if you prefer.

Stop it now, before it becomes too big to handle.

Yes Sohardtochooseausername it's a very small number and it might not happen that much and the only losers are girls and women........

Infinitesheldon and shotsfired I understand and I wouldn’t want my DD to be in that hypothetical situation. It’s so unlikely though, surely it would be easier to deal with if it did arise? I’m imagining that at some point there will be groups of women objecting to trans being in their space IRL and in a mainstream setting (ie not at feminist meeting) - but it hasn’t really happened yet.

I just wondered what you would want done about it? Should there be a change in the way these things are worded?

It's all of it
Sport, guides, the right of women to meet and discuss together
It so underhand. I'd rather they just did away with all single sex groupings, at least it would be honest
Amongst the older group
That a trans woman would want to work in a refuge or fit bras is a red flag imo

What is the female girls just united and refused to compete with any trans participants?
*
Just stood together (perhaps pre-organised) and said "no. We'll compete fairly and squarely against each other, but not unfairly against a male, be-penised individual"*

Unfortunately that is exactly what our teenage dds are least likely to do. If mine are anything to go by, they are fully paid-up, Koolaid-drinking members of the "Transwomen Are Women" club.

But that's because we have brought them up to be kind and considerate. To respect the rights of others and accord them the same freedoms we expect for ourselves. To value their ability to be assertive, rather than aggressive. And they have chosen to be assertive on the part of those they have been taught are the underdogs.

And because they are teens who have been brought up in a far freer and more equal society than we, or our mothers, or our grandmothers grew up in - so they have no concept of what they're giving up.

And because, despite the more equal society, and despite our attempts to bring them up as assertive girls who understand their rights to equality, society has nonetheless socialised them to be accepting and gentle and giving.

It worries me.

Sohardtochooseausername google Fallon Fox.

JellySlice You're absolutely spot on. Plus, if women have no idea how much men hate us, teenage girls certainly don't.

they have no concept of what they're giving up

So much this.

I think the words 'savage beating' were used to describe what he did to his female boxing opponent.

@Sohardtochooseausername
Infinitesheldon and shotsfired I understand and I wouldn’t want my DD to be in that hypothetical situation. It’s so unlikely though, surely it would be easier to deal with if it did arise? I’m imagining that at some point there will be groups of women objecting to trans being in their space IRL and in a mainstream setting (ie not at feminist meeting) - but it hasn’t really happened yet.

Sadly it is NOT unlikely. And it's already happening.
Do you think these female weightlifters had a fair competition?
Or female MMA participants?

I believe it's also affecting Roller Derby, which is a really empowering activity for women - they are now being (literally) crushed by male-bodied people.

I just wondered what you would want done about it? Should there be a change in the way these things are worded?

Well, making your views heard now would be a good start. I'm not a swimmer, but I have set aside some time to write to Swim England to complain and demand an explanation about their new trans policy where born women need "educating" if a male-bodied person rocks up in their communal changing room.

There have also been many posts on MN from parents worried about how their girls are being made to change in the same places as boys who are claiming to be trans. And residential trips where they will be sleeping in the same rooms as boys. And shops like TopShop making its changing rooms communal after one man claimed he felt female that day so it was his right to go in amongst the teenage girls.

It's just insidiously creeping into every aspect of life and if we don't stand up for women now, it'll be game over.

That's all before, of course, the exhortations by activits to put pre-pubescent children on experimental drug regimes that will effectively sterilise them and give them immature genitals for life, just because they acted a bit girly or tomboyish (therefore they must be trans, not just enjoying perfectly normal children's activties).

And as a final point for now, I'll mention that gay and lesbian people are being told their sexuality is wrong, that they are actually trans and that lesbian women particularly are transphobic if they don't have lesbian sex with a female penis. Because apparently "female penises" exist now too.

I get it, I was very much like you not that long ago. "Live and let live, surely someone will make sure it's all dealt with rationally and everyone's considered.. blah blah". But the more I read and researched and looked, the more horrified I became.

Meanwhile

www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-42909606?__twitter_impression=true
The transgender-only home giving people a 'safe place'

Insult meet injury.

What is the female girls just united and refused to compete with any trans participants?

The youngest girls in this group would be 12. Knowing my daughter, it would go against every bone in her body to disobey what a teacher or person in authority said. It's a massive ask to ask young people to take a stand like this.

She also does Guides but no boys have asked to join - yet.

Girl guiding is keen to remain girls only ie unlike scouting which now take girls and boys
But Trans ?Am not sure what is happening there
Would I want to take a boy of 14 who is trans (Sorry that's probably not the correct way to say it ) to Guide camp
Honestly? No

Isn’t this all a bit hypothetical? I am on the fence as some of the trans stuff really bothers me but at the same time isn’t the number of teenage boys wanting to be girls who also want free judo really a really small number?

Yes. The OP and her daughter could go along to this targeted initiative and see what happens or boycott it on the off- chance a transgender girl might attend.

But this is more about being a teenage girl, awkward, self-conscious, not wanting to exercise, uncomfortable among boys. Feeling that breaking sweat and getting red in the face is unfeminine

Maybe you should address how unhealthy this attitude is rather than focusing on maintaining a space which allows the preservation of this attitude? It is I assume difficult to play a sport without breaking a sweat. That is going to happen regardless of who else is there. I see the point of single sex spaces for sport but I also think this delicate flower attitude is problematic.