Owen Jones article

[WiseUpJanetWeiss]

Not open to comments yet. If it does, maybe an opportunity to state the case?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/trans-backlash-anti-gay-zealotry-section-28-homophobia

Really glad to see ellaodie bringing up the Islington situation. I often think of it. Absolutely spot on that no movement should be beyond critique and questioning.

Catgirl1976 (08.42) - brilliant.

Just boils down all my angry incoherent feelings that 'this is all WRONG!' into logic and rationality. I love you a bit.

The only women OJ likes have cocks.

He is notoriously critical of everything women do, but ridiculously accepting of whatever transwomen do...

I think the girls were probably mean to Owen Jones at school. At some point he may have to accept that this was probably down to his personality and not his sexuality.

It’s obvious that even OJ himself doesn’t think trans women are women (despite hooting it like a demented owl all over twitter every time he can’t think up a decent response to a woman he disagrees with. If he did, he’d treat Paris lees, shon Faye, lily Madigan et al with the same respect he affords actual women (I.e. none, unless they’re in his little coterie of unthinking devotees).

Owen Jones is a self-important tosser and a misogynist. He can get to fuck.

BeyondAssignation lol I thought you were trying to transition into Owen Jones for a moment. What an idea.

I'm too tall to be OJ-passing

apples

I do think as a PP said on another thread, the more the TRAs shout and the more cover this gets mainstream the more damage they do to their own cause.

So many women (and men though as said up thread it doesn't yet affect them day to day) are waking up to this bullshit. I think the mainstream will reach peaktrans quite soon

I wouldn't bother reading it - this one was better www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/06/feminist-linda-bellos-women-trans-male-violence?CMP=share_btn_tw

Catgirl's post is brilliant. It sums up the profound misogyny at the heart of Owen's argument beautifully.

ellaodie's post is very pertinent too.

If I were Owen, I'd be wary of making analogies with gay rights. Remember the Paedophile Information Exchange? They also wormed their way into the affections of the left in the 1970s by claiming that people with a sexual interest in children had as much right to legal protection and support as people attracted to the same sex. And we know how that turned out.

A 19-year-old trans woman, Lily Madigan, was hounded after being elected women’s officer at her local Labour party. Online trolls were spurred on by the media coverage: “I’ve had people hoping I commit suicide and calling me horrid things like dickhead and freak.”

If Lily is referencing the comments that Venice Allen made under that meme re: suicide, then that is some serious twisting of words, because even though Venice might come across as a bit of a plonker, she did not say that she hopes Lily commits suicide.

Also, in the grand scheme of the sort of abuse that women in the public eye are subject too, being called a 'dickhead and a freak' are fairly little league.

Where is Owen's defence of them?

Oh, indeed Thehairthebod. But the death and rape threats that feminists have been subjected to don't count, do they? Just bloody women making a fuss like they always do.

I don't think OJ's article will open for comments. But I do think it's worth people writing to the letters page of the Guardian to show the strength of feeling. Email address is: [email protected]

Short letters stand more chance of being published than long ones.

How can he claim there is no evidence that women have been attacked in the toilet. What if they are too ashamed to tell or they got an uninterested police man, you just cannot claim this does not or will not happen.

I think I might put 'dickhead' one above 'plonker' in terms of levels of abuse. Kinder than 'idiot' which is getting fairly plain-speaking and straight forward.

He's such a tedious, woman-hating, self-regarding bore.

I liked this tweet:

"given that Owen has been identifying as a journalist for a number of years, it's no surprise he's supporting a group of people who are also pretending to be something they are not'

"given that Owen has been identifying as a journalist for a number of years, it's no surprise he's supporting a group of people who are also pretending to be something they are not'

twitter.com/rainy101/status/941591272543879168

Straight: Wanting to have sex with someone of the opposite sex

Gay: wanting to have sex with someone of the same sex.

These things both meet their definition. You cannot for example say, "I am Gay because I feel gay even though I am a man and I want to have sex with women"... because that is nonsense. The comparisons between gay and trans are just bonkers. It's not about judging the morality of the trans person, which was the issue with homophobia.

Its about simply stating you can't not feel like something that YOU ARE NOT. All other things aside including safe spaces etc, you just cannot decide to change the definition of a word for a marginalised group to such an extent that the individuals of that group no longer fit in that group.

I do not define as a woman, therefore I am not a woman now. Nothing has taken away the oppression I suffer as a woman, I just cannot say it's due to my femaleness that I suffer it. I must have chosen to identify into that oppression.

You cannot for example say, "I am Gay because I feel gay even though I am a man and I want to have sex with women"... because that is nonsense.

*I used the above to make a point though I am aware that actually lots of straight people are now identifying as queer because their opposite-sex partner once wore lippy or a bowtie.

Owen Jones can't be The Voice Of Gay Men anymore, anyway. Didn't he have a public tweet conversation with Paris Lees about having sex with transwomen? Therefore he's - using the new terms of being attracted to gender identity and not biology - just a boring old bisexual now.

PrincePooPoo sums it up perfectly