It's another FB 'discussion' on TRAs...

[Albadross]

Help me craft a response to this that summarises the issues without causing all out war with my friend?

"Trans exclusionary radical feminists.... That is a kind of radical feminism characterized by transphobia, especially transmisogyny, and hostility to the third wave of feminism. They believe that the only real women™ are those born with a vagina and XX chromosomes. They wish to completely enforce the classic gender binary, supporting gender essentialism.... so basically... yikes, these are people harrassing trans people and try to prevent gender neutral bathrooms and that stuff.. This is really sick and I still have no idea how people can subvert the word feminism in this way but it happens. More reasons why people don't like calling themselves feminists... morons like this."

I would pick her up on the use of the word "moron". It's a vile, disablist term.

Point out the 'white feminism' inherent in transactivism. Female children aren't killed or subject to FGM or child marriage because of how they identify but because of their female biology.

Not that transactivism is feminism of any kind of course.

I gave someone the link to terfisaslur, but they just replied "Yes, those people are not nice, but they are exceptions, and anyway, terf isn't a slur, they are just using it wrong, doesn't mean anything".

Then I found out one of that person's friends had made all the "terf! Die in a fire!" comments explicitly meaning me somewhere else on the internet, and guess who is still friends with whom.

After what my experience with genderists was, I'd tell you to not even bother to engage with that person, and just quit being friends, but I guess you'll want to try to make them see reason.

Good luck!

This tumblr blog has some posts that sum things up rather nicely. Perhaps you can quote something from there:

trannosphere.tumblr.com/

Always answer in a way that is pro women, mot anti trans.

Point out that feminists centre females, this is necessary because of the way women throughout history have been treated. Radical feminists believe that both sexes can have any personality, wear any clothes they like.

That's when they start getting cross that you mention 2 sexes That's when you can have some fun, if you're in the mood!

Just say you don't believe in a lady brain.

I would pretend ti be ignorant and say Terf? Isn't that what [sorry forgotten her name - wiman's hour presenter - the older woman with the specs half down her nose] and attach a link to her controversial article.

*sorry i'm not British

Sorry for typos. Struggling under two wrestling toddlers in bed.

I meant, say "TERF? Isn't that what x was called? And all those women who knitted pussy hats - the vast bulk of attendees at the anti-Trump women's rally - were called TERFs too. Really? Is that what it means? So all those women had that view? Really?"

I'd say "I think you are conflating gender and sex, as well as using a vile disablist term"

Ok these are all great and I need to now consider if this is an argument worth having I guess. I mean of course it is, but in this context.

Then add, "Gosh I've just been reading about it. Apparently anyone who uses the term 'FGM' is a TERF, because not everyone with a vagina is female. Also apparently lesbians who say they prefer not to have relationships with transwomen with penises are hateful TERF bigots."

Then wait a minute and add a further comment: "So a lot of people are TERFs?"

Don't get drawn into challenging the witch definition, just try and lead other readers to peak trans.

You could have such fun adding to a list of outrageous transactivist claims with an air of befuddlement:

"Also I've just read that mothers if babies who prefer to use the term 'breastfeeding' rather than 'chestfeeding' are TERFs.

Women who object to transwomen with penises who are in jail for sex offences to be housed in a woman's prison are TERFs.

So me objecting to Ian Huntley going to a woman's prison makes me a TERF I suppose...

"What? Vagina Monologues was banned on a US uni campus because it doesn't centre trans women's lack of vaginas? So anyone who supports women talking openly about their vaginas is a TERF?"

"We're supposed to use the term 'front hole' instead of vagina because we will otherwise be 'cis-sexist'? Women who don't like that idea are TERFs?"

That's a good idea. Just say you've been googling it. Is this what it means?? All wide eyed and innocent.

"Apparently any transwomen who say that the new self-id gender identity laws are harmful to them and their condition are hateful TERFs too?"

Found the perfect thing a couple of threads below mine:

transanityca.wordpress.com/2017/08/13/synanon-the-brainwashing-game-and-modern-transgender-activism-the-orwellian-implications-of-transgender-politics-by-jenn-smith/

From the article:

targeted with unfounded rape allegations for expressing same gender attraction

Or feminists saying women lie about rape. Good

"Apparently baby girls too young to talk who pull clips out of their hair are expressing a desire to be masculine? Baby boys who pull at the press studs around their legs are showing femininity? This was said at a gender conference in the US by an expert at transitioning young children. If I disagree with this I'm a TERF?"

OP, you could point out that the transgender ideology erases sexual orientation.

"Whilst I think is a good discussion to be had around gender nonconformity, as a supporter of the gay community, I don't think that claiming sexual orientation should be unlearned is a good thing".

I'd like to see someone stick their hand up and say yes, I think that homosexuality is something that needs to be thought through.

Yes, that innocent approach, while pointing out the problematic clash with homosexuality, is a good one.

Unless she's fully drunk the Kool aid it will give her pause for thought. I'm just trying to think of an article from a non terfy source so you can keep up your innocent act!

Ask your friend if she agrees with what this transactivist has posted. If she says no, of course not, this person is just an anomaly, get her to confirm definitively that she doesn't agree with it. She will wonder why you are asking. She will have a moment where she will question that disagreement with this might be transphobic. It should make her think.

Or this.