It's another FB 'discussion' on TRAs...

[Albadross]

Help me craft a response to this that summarises the issues without causing all out war with my friend?

"Trans exclusionary radical feminists.... That is a kind of radical feminism characterized by transphobia, especially transmisogyny, and hostility to the third wave of feminism. They believe that the only real women™ are those born with a vagina and XX chromosomes. They wish to completely enforce the classic gender binary, supporting gender essentialism.... so basically... yikes, these are people harrassing trans people and try to prevent gender neutral bathrooms and that stuff.. This is really sick and I still have no idea how people can subvert the word feminism in this way but it happens. More reasons why people don't like calling themselves feminists... morons like this."

As for whether it's a fight worth having, if not now when? When females are completely erased?

Ok, I posted some stuff but it's gone quiet now.

Good for you, we have got to stand up for women.

Or maybe list off the many illustrious women who have campaigned for women's rights for decades who have been labelled TERFs, no-platformed and vilified? Or wonder why so many evil radfems are lesbians?

Radical feminists don't exclude trans people as trans men remain biologically female and welcome in female spaces.

You could ask how she thinks Jessica and Holly's parents feel about 'lian' Huntley's legal entitlement to female prisioners of the self id law comes in. Or you could ask how we measure sex pay gap, females in stem or senior management or similar if legally woman means anyone who fills in a self cert. Or you could ask why Danielle muscato deserves to take a funded for women's space in a women's shelter. Or ask why lesbians should be expected to have sex with penis'.

Honestly if you challenge this friend I doubt you will be friends much longer.

Well done OP

Well done Alba for refusing to be silenced.

BrandNewHouse

Indeed. This person is obviously a complete fuck up. The problem is, ever fuck up in the country with the slightest disassociation from themselves, is claiming they are trans.

Being trans (AGP excluded) of course doesn't automatically mean you enjoy violating women's boundaries.

But enjoying violating women's boundaries means you can identify as trans.

In a suit, with a beard, on the way home from work, just for the kicks.

People have to be really really naive to think that predators won't do this. Any predator. Any time.

Albadross

What did you post? The sound of crickets generally means they have no comeback.

At first I posted this (before asking you all for input):

"There is a lot tied up in this that isn't as black and white as you've described here. It's often used by trans activists with an agenda that isn't actually of benefit to the majority of trans people and the trans people I know are not happy about it either."

Got the only response to my comments, which read: "trans activists that are like... what? Pretending to be trans activists and actually doing the opposite of helping? I'm not following."

I then posted the link to that article, and then I also posted that screenshot of the TRA talking about rape (which frankly I find jaw-dropping) as an example of what she had asked about in the single response above. I think I managed to make my point, and either she hasn't engaged because there's not a lot to say in response, or she wants me to STFU

Without wishing to sound patronising, she's quite young in her outlook and a little younger than me (I think she's early thirties?), plus she has a lot of trans friends and lives in Canada where there are obviously lots of TRAs and their rhetoric is embraced by everyone it seems. I think she could reach peak trans if I could somehow nuance the debate so she didn't feel she had to diss her trans friends.

It's so odd, these people tear anyone apart who appropriates another race, quite rightly. They claim to be feminists but are happy to see women reduced to an idea in a mans head, a feeling.

It's so odd, these people tear anyone apart who appropriates another race, quite rightly. They claim to be feminists but are happy to see women reduced to an idea in a mans head, a feeling.

There is a lot of internalized misogyny there.
I'd be quite interested in a study that'd measure the unconscious misogyny bias of genderists, extremist Christian conservatives and radfems, and compare them.

Albadross I knew someone similar, and ... I don't think there's hope. I hope I am wrong, but once they are so surrounded by the ideology, I think there's no way out.

@vestalvirgin It's terribly depressing - I know more than one.

Don't stop calmly and rationally stating your position. Even in the last few days, I've seen women on here saying they used to think a certain way, but gradually they changed their mind.

I've seen it it lot actually.

I've just read that link to the Halifax story.

Who are the Indigenous people in BIPOC. And the 'two spirit' people?

Okay. Just realised I might have got the wrong Halifax.

I'll get my coat.

Easy mistake to make

Side point now you've got your coat Ursula but TRA's coopting and misappropriating two spirit is highly offensive to native Americans.

So a poor woman was most likely raped, the accused got off because the judge said because the woman was drunk he can't say for certain if she had consented or not. Local women organised a protest and included signs which I am guessing probably included the 'female' symbol and other references that this was a woman who was raped.

And then some transpeople come in and instead of being angry at what happened, chose to shout down the protest/ers as being 'transphobic' and turns it to being all about them?!

Yeah, AWESOME job at being 'women', mates.

Really nailing it.

(On another note -That surly bloke in the middle of that photo has called himself 'Hope' LOL)

Thanks gone. When I was thinking it was the other Halifax I thought the two spirits might have come over from Hebden Bridge.

I don't suppose the trans community give a flying fig about the views of Native Americans.

Yes tiny. And as I said I saw the shit that was flung from the trans side on Facebook and it was really violent rhetoric. And the page admin didn't intervene to stop, he said their violent threats were "understandable".

The threats I saw were in the line of "I know where you live and I'll fight you". Screaming in all caps and calling women cunts etc.

They were claiming they were attacked and harassed and I did wonder why I couldn't find any evidence of that.