Another woman being harrassed for daring to question transideology needs your voice.

[Jog22]

Apparently you're not allowed to say that lesbians have the right to refuse sexual relations with people with penises. Martha Harvey's being bullied merely for posting an article which contained this daring assertion.

www.feministcurrent.com/2017/07/18/open-letter-support-martha-harvey/

Why should one vocal minority get to speak on behalf of all LGBT people? Why should that group be permitted to dictate what conversations are allowed to happen among LGBT people? Why is this group being permitted to attack, threaten, and silence a lesbian woman, who has worked for decades, on behalf of LGBT people, simply because they don’t like the kinds of articles she reads?

The above is from the article.

Why can't lesbians sleep with who they are sexually attracted to? Why is this transphobic?

I'm well on my way to needing Valium today

At this rate most lesbians will also be needing a fuck of a lot of valium just to get through a night out.

Unfortunately she subsequently issued a grovelling apology. Whether it was to keep her job, or whether she was got at, I don't know.

You know what's really, really bad?

I am afraid of putting my name on that list. Because I fear being attacked for it. And I don't even live in the US or the UK.

Will try to work up the courage, though.

OMG that apology is almost the worst part of it, and the whole thing is just fucking vile. That's basically Winston Smith's capitulation to Big Brother, right there. That poor woman.

A little part of me hopes that she didn't mean a word of it and it was a calculated move, deliberately over the top to parody those evil fuckers and their malignant attitudes, but I fear that's a vain hope.

Terrible but also surely nobody should be expected to sleep with someone they dont want to, bepenised or not.

I can't believe she bloody apologised

Surely people don't seriously expect lesbians to sleep with people who are clearly biologically male?

Has anyone tried posting to the facebook page?

Surely people don't seriously expect lesbians to sleep with people who are clearly biologically male?

The people who want ze sex definitely do. It's causing others to reach peak trans, I believe.

Although I'm incredulous how people can readily agree that transwomen are women, and then suddenly disagree that lesbians should view them as sexual partners. Well which is it? The logic is so glaringly absent.

On this dating website the user set her search to women only, not to be seen by straight people. All these people identify as trans and lesbians.

I know the twatactivists think lesbians should sleep with transwomen but surely the a normal sane person wouldn't and would agree that it would be insanity to expect them to?

Just a thought, but wouldn't that also means that trans rights and gay rights conflict?

I know we've spoken about how trans rights conflict with womens rights and how you can't protect both gender identity and sex because they conflict but could the same not be said for trans rights and gay rights?

I haven't really thought about it this way before but I struggle to see how you can protect both sexuality and gender identity. If we accept that people should identify however they want and that some men have vaginas and some women have penises then how can we define sexuality and what homo and heterosexuality is?

Am I making any sense?

@FerretsAreFeminists Exactly. It's a fairly prevalent view in rad fem circles that the TRA ideology erases lesbians. Not gay men so much, I haven't seen anyone pushing for gay men to have sex with pre-op trans men, or comments about rugged man-vaginas, but have seen plenty about 'blushing lesbian lady dicks'.

More and more butch lesbians, particularly in younger age groups, are being pushed (or becoming resigned) to identify as trans, because heaven forbid they want to identify as what they actually are...butch lesbians with no interest in men or penises. Apparently you can say no to a penis if you're a man/trans man but no women can reject a penis without being a vile transphobe.

Apart from trans women. They might get triggered by a penis...even if they still have one.

I'm just going to copy and paste my post from another thread where this exact question has come up:

"But I would like to see someone who is not a member of the LGBT community stand up and say lesbians should sleep with transwomen. Because by that token they are erasing any sexual orientation whatsoever in one fell swoop. Both homosexual and heterosexual.

If lesbians should sleep with transwomen then gay men should sleep with transmen. And straight men should sleep with transwomen, straight women with transmen.

I honestly can't possibly understand how the LGBT community can, on the one hand, say transwomen are women and homosexuality doesn't exist, whilst at the same time representing homosexuals!

No one on the planet thinks that your sex is determined by your feelings when it comes to actually having sex. So how can anyone agree with that premise when it comes to other dealings?

Even transpeople don't believe it. Otherwise transwomen would sleep with each other instead of targeting lesbians. But they don't want lady dick anymore than lesbians do."

Just a thought, but wouldn't that also means that trans rights and gay rights conflict?

Ferrets, we've had homophobia from trans activists for a long time now:

• Sophia Banks, a prominent Canadian activist, was one of the first to come out with garbage like this, at least three years ago: "Terms like gay and lesbian to imply attraction to the same sex/gender are actually really transphobic. Think about it."

• Fox Fisher, Mermaids alumnus and featured on the NSPCC website, is on film describing gay people as "a deviant kind of thing".

• Mermaids themselves described "cis" (sic) person happy with gender and fancies the opposite sex". (Gay and lesbian people don't exist!)

• the internet is full of absolutely heartbreaking stories by young lesbians who either have been coerced into heterosexual relationships with trans women, to avoid being labelled bigots, or who have pledged to refrain from sex altogether, while they "work through" their aversion to dick.

Anyone has the right to say no to sex, for any reason. I don't understand why this seems to get lost, unless they're all rape bastards.

unless they're all rape bastards

Ding ding ding!

This makes me want to cry. With both the rage and the insanity of it.

What, now do we have to declare ourselves based on what type of genitalia we like to tangle with as our personal identifier?

e.g. "I am a person who likes playing with penises that are biologically 43 years old"? (to avoid upsetting trans people, post-op, old men and young men?)

Anyone has the right to say no to sex, for any reason.

YY to this.

Even if a lesbian is open to the idea of sex with a transwoman then that doesn't automatically mean she'll be open to the idea of having sex with every single damn transwoman. She shouls still be allowed to turn down an individual transwomen without being labelled transphobic and bigoted.

*should

FerretsAreFeminists

Well that's where the lines get blurred. You won't find many transactivists openly saying that lesbians have to sleep with transwomen. What they say is you can't turn them down on the basis that they're trans. You can turn them down on the basis they have a penis. Sometimes. Occasionally. If they're talking in MSM.

Although this distinction without a difference is now becoming blurred as well.

But the reality is although they try to make a distinction, a pre-op transwoman, by definition, has a penis. So it's more of the ridiculous linguistic tongue tying, just to get a shag.

It's also worth noting, by their publicly proclaimed logic, a post-op transwoman cannot be turned down on any basis, other than you just don't happen to click.

Again, lesbians wants a natal born vulva and vagina. Not a surgically created neovagina, with a man attached to it.

You can turn them down on the basis they have a penis.

Alas, you are behind the times. No you can't because "it's just flesh"/ you need to work on your irrational aversion/ it's a female body part/ you are a vagina fetishist/ hey, I bet you've used a dildo or vibrator in the past so if you turn down a penis just because it's made of flesh then it's because you are a transphobe for sure.

ArcheryAnnie

Is that now the official line? I though having a preference for a certain sexes genitalia, being called a fetish, was confined to online activists.

Anyone can refuse sex with anyone else for nay reason. Noone should sleep with anyone without consent.

Transwomen should not be wishing to penetrate anyone without their consent.

Datun it's a line I have seen move from niche/extreme to absolutely mainstream and unremarkable in an incredibly short time. I don't think it's universal (yet), but there is no embarrassment and absolutely no cost to anyone saying it.