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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Would you rescind offer of help?

36 replies

DraenorQueen · 05/05/2016 19:04

I've been awarded a promotion at work which will leave a vacancy in my old role. There are a few people suitable, a couple of whom I'm friendly. One male colleague, who I'm friendly with in a mentor/student kind of way messaged me asking for advice on his application. Of course, that's fine, but I made it clear I'd offer similar help to anyone else who wanted it.

Then in further conversation he said, "See, I think I have a natural advantage being male. I feel I could hammer discipline (school job!) and I'd be better for day to day people management." (Implying I've not done a good job?!) When I predictably sent a rather curt objection he protested "well that's what girls always tell me. I don't care how I get it, I'll charm (winky face)"

I feel like not offering any help at all now. I feel disappointed. He comes across, I feel, as quite immature with some views I don't like. Or am I over-reacting at the "natural advantage" comment?

OP posts:
HermioneWeasley · 05/05/2016 19:08

Sabotage him?

DPotter · 05/05/2016 19:11

If you can bear to, I would still offer advice which would major on telling your male colleague to take the time to re-consider his sexist remarks and reviewing his whole approach to managing people. I would tell him you were shocked at his remarks and he has gone down in your estimations as a consequence. Remind him also you are in a position to forewarn your boss so he had better wise up and move in to the 21st century if he wishes to progress up the hierarchy.

Don't let him off the hook!

Original poster
DraenorQueen · 05/05/2016 19:14

Thanks - was dreading being told I'm "over-thinking!" I appreciate the advice.
Yes, I know I'll get to offer my opinion in the appointment, even if I won't be on the panel. I will offer him ideas and let him do what he pleases with them. There's a fab woman applying too who sadly doesn't have masses of confidence in her abilities. Always the way...!

OP posts:
aginghippy · 05/05/2016 19:21

Why does he think belittling someone is a good strategy for getting them to do what you want?

thatstoast · 05/05/2016 19:30

Is the boss he's going to charm male or female?

I think it's fair to say that his comments have made you reassess his suitability for the role. Obviously, you know him but out of context those comments make him sound really unlikeable and unprofessional.

catkind · 05/05/2016 19:42

Shock That's grossly unprofessional. I'd just forward the email to the boss. It's not like he's chatting with a friend outside work (which would be bad enough), he's emailed this stuff to the current incumbent of the position. Pretty stupid really.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 05/05/2016 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
DraenorQueen · 05/05/2016 20:24

Thanks again. I'm glad you lot can see it's not just inappropriate but also an idiotic thing to say to the person who's currently in the role! I'm not going to forward the messages to the boss - who's female, BTW - but I'll certainly have a chat with my female colleague. She's actually fantastic!
Thank you for the suggestions.

OP posts:
SenecaFalls · 05/05/2016 21:04

I second Buffy's suggestion.

0phelia · 05/05/2016 21:52

"I have a natural advantage being male".
This sort of comment is unacceptably rage inducing to probably 51% of the population.

I would be concerned as to what other highly arrogant, insulting comments he may be inclined to blurt out in none other than a teaching environment.

Arrogance and sexism like that does not belong in a teaching environment seeing as he presumably assumes all males have a natural advantage.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 05/05/2016 22:17

Unless one is applying for say a pastoral care post in a single sex boarding school I can't think of any job where being a man or a woman makes one more suitable.

shinynewusername · 06/05/2016 08:49

I think you should forward the email to your boss, or at least inform her of the content. What would you do if he had said he would be better at the job because he is white and naturally more intelligent (or whatever)? He doesn't sound like someone who should be in a leadership role.

sooperdooper · 06/05/2016 08:56

Ugh that's just awful! I would definitely pass on his ridiculous sexist comments to whoever is going to be on the panel, either by email or face to face but with a copy of what he's said to prove you're not overreacting.

He sounds awful, patronising and utterly unsuitable for a management position with any more responsibility

deydododatdodontdeydo · 06/05/2016 09:13

"I have a natural advantage being male".

I can't think that anybody would think it's appropriate to say this, even more so to a female colleague.
What an arse. Will you be asked your opinion on the candidates to replace you? If so, I would be sure to give my opinion :)

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 06/05/2016 11:59

I so want you to tell him to say all that in his interview because 'the boss will love his confidence'.

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 06/05/2016 12:01

Nothing to add. Just Shock

EBearhug · 06/05/2016 13:34

Why does he think being a man makes him better at discipline and day-to-day people management? I don't deny that being a man gives him a natural advantage, but I don't think he's showing much awareness of how patriarchy works.

My advice to him would be to go and learn about unconscious bias, and if he really thinks he's so great at people management, he'll need to be able to describe why, with concrete examples. But mostly, I'd be wanting to tell him to fuck off, then I'd go and help the fab woman with boosting her confidence.

Rollinginthevalley · 06/05/2016 17:26

I would still offer advice which would major on telling your male colleague to take the time to re-consider his sexist remarks and reviewing his whole approach to managing people. I would tell him you were shocked at his remarks and he has gone down in your estimations as a consequence

This.

Play high status. You're senior to him, and he's taking the mick by saying something like that to you. Don't take it personally, give him advice from your greater experience & knowledge.

Men can assume they are 'naturally' superior - masculine privilege. Demonstrate that he's not.

AyeAmarok · 06/05/2016 17:34

Urgh. Pleeeeease come back and tell us that the much more pleasant and capable woman got the job!

What a dick he sounds.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 07/05/2016 08:05

Urgh he sounds like a complete knob. Is there any chance this was a joke? Is he known for having a shit and really inappropriate sense of humour.

WellErrr · 07/05/2016 08:10

'You haven't 'charmed' me. I do not feel comfortable assisting someone with such blatantly and disgracefully sexist views to progress in a position of influence.
I hope that you will reflect on this and I wish you luck with improving your attitude towards women in the future.'

Original poster
DraenorQueen · 07/05/2016 08:28

Hello all, thanks for the responses. I'm glad you lot feel as I do. I mentioned the "natural advantage" comment to a male friend who's in the same profession and he replied "well he probably does in fairness, "and went on to moan how his dept in his new school is all female bar him and the head of department. He quickly backtracked when I went off it! So pissed off, I feel like I'm surrounded by people who have this secret understanding that men will just naturally assume leadership.

In terms of the colleague, I've been cool but professional but had a good chat with female colleague before I left yesterday and she's definitely going to apply. However, male colleague was in with the boss as I left. Probably discussing his manliness. I will certainly let you know the outcome!

OP posts:
Specky4eyes · 07/05/2016 08:41

I wouldn't have took the comment "I'd be better for day to day people management." as a slight against me but against the fellow female applicants.

Is using his charm likely to work with the interviewer as I do know of many (pathetic) woman who go all giggly when in a man's company?

I would not forward the emails as I don't feel that is fair on him as he may of meant it all tongue in cheek but I would offer help to the female colleague in the remit of being fair and unbiased.

Hopefully you will be asked your opinion on who is best suited for the role and it is then that you can give your views - put across in a professional way of course, but with a little wry dig at what he said if appropriate.

Ultimately you have still got to work along side these people so keep it all "above board" in your approach and be able to justify anything that you say to the interviewer about both applicants.

AyeAmarok · 07/05/2016 09:10

I think if the boss mentions the candidates to you, when she mentions The Man, you should just roll your eyes, and if she asks why you did that/what do you think then you can just say that he told you he thinks he should get the job because he's a man and is therefore "naturally better".

Then she can make her own mind up.

AskBasil · 07/05/2016 09:52

I'd advise the interviewing panel to ensure that when they get to the equality question, they focus quite strongly on it, particularly with regard to sex equality.