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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How can any woman NOT support the No More Page 3 campaign?!

189 replies

DoctorRobert · 23/05/2013 15:42

This is inspired by a thread about the No More Page 3 campaign on another forum I'm a member of. Some of the attitudes over there (all by female posters) are just depressing.

So many women who don't see a problem with Page 3 & describe it as harmless fun...the old chestnut that "there are worse things in the world to worry about" (maybe, maybe not, but I can think about more than one issue at once)...Page 3 being defended as tradition...and a complete inability to see Page 3 as part of a bigger picture of objectification and inequality. Posters denying that there even is inequality. Posters saying they would support their daughters if they wanted to topless model.

So my question is, how can any woman in 2013 think that way?

Is it normalisation? A lot of the posters also recount their parents buying the Sun and seeing Page 3 from a young age. Has objectification been so deeply ingrained into them that they just can't see why it's a problem?

Or is that it's too uncomfortable for some women to acknowledge that we don't yet have equality? Perhaps on some level they do realise there's a problem with Page 3, but facing up to that isn't an easy thing to do?

OP posts:
Mitchy1nge · 23/05/2013 15:45

um because people even women people (if you can say women are people?) are allowed to think what they like?

am not really a fan of censorship although I was Shock that p3 was still around

Original poster
DoctorRobert · 23/05/2013 15:51

Of course they are allowed to think what they like, but am just trying to understand why any woman in this day and age would want to think that way in the first place.

OP posts:
Mitchy1nge · 23/05/2013 15:55

well, what feels nicer - the facts as you see them or 'no really what's the problem?'

I can't really get cross at people for opting not to have their consciousness raised because you know it's really fucking depressing once you start

Lottapianos · 23/05/2013 16:03

It's so depressing isnt' it OP? Sad I have no idea how any woman or decent man could defend Page 3 either.

It drives me crackers when people say there are more important things to worry about. Well that's true for virtually every situation you care to mention! Doesn't mean you shouldn't 'worry' about it if it bugs you.

The one that really makes me boil over is when people who are anti-gay marriage say that 'the government have more important things to think about, like the economy'. I'm sorry for shouting but THEY ARE THE BLOODY GOVERNMENT! If they can't deal with more than one issue at a time, we are all totally even more screwed

Startail · 23/05/2013 16:04

Because it seems a really petty thing to bother about..

There are far more important things

And because banning page 3 reinforces the idea that nudity and breasts are wrong.

I know the feminist argument is pg. 3 is the objectification of women, but it doesn't bother me anything like as much as women dressed in micro mini skirts and sky high heels at a trade show do.

Mitchy1nge · 23/05/2013 16:12

for avoidance of doubt I would prefer a world without p 3 and have never heard a good reason for having it

I just think it is ok for other people to feel differently

Kendodd · 23/05/2013 16:17

How can any woman NOT support the No More Page 3 campaign?!

Well, I suppose the women who appear on it wouldn't support the campaign. Other than them, no, I don't understand it either. Although I wouldn't want to see it banned as such, I would like to just see it die out.

Don't buy the Sun, that's the answer.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 23/05/2013 16:31

Because if you say you disapprove of it you run the risk of looking jealous or like a prudish nag. Completely unfounded, childish accusations but insulting all the same and I can understand why many women don't want to come across that way to men (and other women).

I suppose it does seem like a minor issue compared to the economy/terrorism etc. but it is part of a much, much bigger issue that is so tempting to just close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears, rather than stand up to.

blueemerald · 23/05/2013 16:32

Because, whilst I think page 3 is disgusting and objectifying, I respect any adult woman's right to, within certain parameters, do what they want and not what a man (most MPs, judges, lawyers etc, who would write and enforce this law, are men) tell them they can't do with their own bodies.

I think the answer is a combination of letting it die out and trying to ensure women don't want to do page 3. Maybe something like disallowing or capping payment for page 3....

MadeOfStarDust · 23/05/2013 16:46

I don't want to see that sort of thing so I don't buy the papers that have that sort of thing.... I'd prefer a world without the objectifying of women, and yes I think it is all becoming "normal" to some folks - but then art through the ages has always celebrated the nude female form.

I just can't get all riled up about folks seeing boobs in a newspaper when it IS such a small part of the bigger picture - the men's "interest" magazines - even the women's ones - the billboards, the TV ads, - the latter 2 being things we can't avoid in the same way as not buying a paper... I'm sure they love the fact there is a "no more page 3" campaign diverting the main focus away from them....

But please stop trying to make out other people's opinion is not valid just because it differs - the hectoring, badgering, bullying stance on these issues is what turns many of us women away from the feminist boards....

Original poster
DoctorRobert · 23/05/2013 16:57

I don't believe that agreeing with Page 3 IS a valid opinion though.

OP posts:
MadBusLady · 23/05/2013 17:01

What does the campaign aim to do? I'd never defend page 3 but I'm not in favour of censorship. If the campaign is just about spreading the message of how damaging etc it is, then fine.

And frankly, even if you DO want to defend page 3, you can't object to people spreading a different message about it.

ChippingInLovesSpring · 23/05/2013 17:01

I don't believe that agreeing with Page 3 IS a valid opinion though

What???????

Who on earth do you think you are to decide what is and what isn't a valid opinion? It's an opinion and people are allowed the think what the hell they like.

ChippingInLovesSpring · 23/05/2013 17:02

I really, really, really need to hide this section, it's a constant bloody wind up

MadBusLady · 23/05/2013 17:02

The world is FULL of hateful, ignorant, batshit opinions DoctorRobert. But opinions is what they are.

Oblomov · 23/05/2013 17:19

The sun newspaper started with provacative photo's of models. And then topless, in 1970. Throughout the 70's the sun was one of the most most popular papers. Why do you think that was?

Leading on, With the internet, porn is readily available for our children to view. Some of it very harcore. Some of it extremely vulgar and disturbing. Maybe that makes some of the topless photos seem less sordid?

I doubt that we will ever be able to get rid of nudity, topless photo's or porn.

I am not THAT opposed to the campaign. I suppose I am the very kind of person that Op can not comprehend.

HullMum · 23/05/2013 18:02

and the op and many others are allowed to feel that an opinion that degrades them is not a valid opinion. I wouldn't expect a black person to say racist opinions are valid. because they aren't

lostproperty · 23/05/2013 18:04

I fully support it !!! I even got the tshirt !!! Smile

HullMum · 23/05/2013 18:05

and to answer the ops question I think it's ignorance. I don't know any people who have educated themselves about women's rights issues who think everyday objectification if women ok just because it's not as bad as other things. When else would that be ok? A little homophobia is ok as long as you don't abuse someone outright?

MrsHoarder · 23/05/2013 18:07

I support it by not buying the sun. I don't want censorship, because that means a committee deciding what we can see, so I help nudge the market away from tacky photos.

HullMum · 23/05/2013 18:20

when people say they don't support censorship, did they draw a line at all? if the Sun were to stick a racist slur across the front page would you genuinely not want the law to step in?

HullMum · 23/05/2013 18:20

*do

FloraFox · 23/05/2013 18:46

when people say they don't support censorship, did they draw a line at all?

^^ Yes to this.

We already have many forms of censorship (see Ofcom, British Film Classification Board, libel laws, contempt of court, hate speech, advertising standards, PCC etc.) decided by parliament and the courts, as is proper in a democracy.

OP, I think it's easier for some people to think there is nothing wrong with their world than to want changes.

Creeping · 23/05/2013 18:53

I have to say I'm baffled too that so many people don't see the bigger picture, how having a page 3 in a newspaper implies that women are mainly newsworthy for their breasts (and only a certain size) while they are next to pictures of clothed men who are mainly newsworthy for what they do. How can anyone not object to that implicit message? This is apart from whether one is offended by naked breasts or not (I'm not).

And then there is a petition that objects to how Merida is revamped by Disney (all barbiefied) and it gets over 200,000 signatures in no time. While that is a cartoon character! Page 3 girls are a reality that is being fed to us! I have signed the Merida petition of course, but I fail to see why Merida should be so much more successful than NMP3. It is all part of the same horrible sexist way women are too often portrayed in the media.

LynetteScavo · 23/05/2013 18:54

I have a problem with P3.

I don't have a problem with a photo of naked breasts in a newspaper, accompanying a report, and is not something I would want censored.

How do you introduce legislation which bans one, but allows the other?