How can any woman NOT support the No More Page 3 campaign?!

[DoctorRobert]

This is inspired by a thread about the No More Page 3 campaign on another forum I'm a member of. Some of the attitudes over there (all by female posters) are just depressing.

So many women who don't see a problem with Page 3 & describe it as harmless fun...the old chestnut that "there are worse things in the world to worry about" (maybe, maybe not, but I can think about more than one issue at once)...Page 3 being defended as tradition...and a complete inability to see Page 3 as part of a bigger picture of objectification and inequality. Posters denying that there even is inequality. Posters saying they would support their daughters if they wanted to topless model.

So my question is, how can any woman in 2013 think that way?

Is it normalisation? A lot of the posters also recount their parents buying the Sun and seeing Page 3 from a young age. Has objectification been so deeply ingrained into them that they just can't see why it's a problem?

Or is that it's too uncomfortable for some women to acknowledge that we don't yet have equality? Perhaps on some level they do realise there's a problem with Page 3, but facing up to that isn't an easy thing to do?

the prison system is full of men whose mothers know they aren't rapist. I said my son won't be allowed these things, (as in the future and I said my daughter was still little.. never implied they were older) yes, there will be mothers more interested in being their childrens friends than their parent as you have demonstrated very well, I can't control that,. What I can control is how much the media filters porn down to one the masses via the news. One way to do this is education about rape culture and through protesting and petitioning. I am doing what I can now. page 3 contributes to the rape culture we live in by saying women are there to be looked at and used.

It makes girls feel horrible about themselves when their schoolmates leer over Page 3 girls openly. Page 3 encourages young boys to compare not only the Page 3 girls, but also judge their classmates with the same standard. And why not? It is in a newspaper after all, it must be what it's there for. It must be okay.

But it isn't.

It is difficult to put that across at an age when peer pressure is more influential than parental guidance, and grown-ups must be doing it as well, otherwise it wouldn't be in the paper. We can try and do try to bring up our boys being respectful to other people. But I think it shouldn't be in the paper in the first place.

What an utterly miserable view of society that if a young woman can't get a job on page 3 then her alternatives are to become a prostitute or work in hardcore porn.

Firstly, we should be aiming for a society where there are other options FGS and TBF most of the time there are.

Secondly how terrible to write that and not identify it as a problem.

you are v pompous and sweeping in your indignant how can any woman blahblah
I dont like p3 but don't want to ban it.this in no way renders my pov inferior to yours
but I'm bemused at your assertions if one doesn't want to ban p3 one is complicit in supporting it

yy to creeping and tabard especially.

Marriedinwhiteagain.

So you would sign a page 3 campaign if the sex industry and all its problems were sorted, based on your priorities? And what are you doing to achieve that?

Why would you prioritise like that when a signature takes all but 30 seconds.

You can fight a fight on more than one front you know, especially when it takes only 30 seconds to show your support.

standing by and doing nothing is supporting.

We should be dealing with the worst things going on beyond society rather than page three which is at the very very mild end and happens within society - albeit the blue collar working class end. I don't really see that page three is any more vulgar than Ann Summers which is on every high street and which frankly I would like to see the back of first.

So we need to make a list of all the bad things happening in society (just ours? or globally?), decide which the worst is and then work to change that and forget about everything else until that thing is fixed.

Hmmmm.

I think the situation for women in the DRC is probably top of my list of "bad things". So I should cancel all charitable donations to anything else, not sign any petitions to do with anything else, let work know i won't be joining in with the community day challenge after all, cancel my membership of various politicial organisations and lobbying groups etc etc and so on.

Really? No of course not, that would be silly. Suggesting that people can't engage with multiple actions is silly. Taking 2 secs to sign a petition for something is hardly going to prevent that same person taking action on other things, is it.

While we're at it, can anyone who has no problem with page 3 give me a reason for it that I can tell my girls (they are 3 and 5). I am struggling.

you're struggling because I'm not minded to have ban it as my default for things I don't like ?
I most certainly don't like p3 but imo don't need to ban it
how you talk to your kids is your responsibility not mine.dont shunt your discomfort onto others

I assume you will not allow your daughters to look at Reubens then. I have a different pov to you; I have a daughter of 15. Do you seriously think she might not value or respect herself because my pov is different from yours. I don't think page 3 is great but I don't think it's horrific and I don't think it devalues or bebases women; I think an awful lot of women who keep their clothes on do that themselves.

i don't like wank books like 50shades but don't want to ban the genre either

If it was a time consuming activity that would stop you from fighting all the other bad things in society, you might be right. But it isn't, is it.

The picture of Page 3 itself may be mild, but its effect isn't. It's got a far further reaching effect than Ann Summers.

what about the news blurb previously mentioned on thread. married? that doesnt debase women? news in briefs?

I don't think it needs banning as a matter of priority. And actually my pov is that I think Ann Summers has more to answer for.

teachers doubt bring the Ann summers catalog to schools parents dont tend to read it infrint of their children

scottishmummy,

The petition doesn't ask for a ban. It wants the Sun to withdraw it.

So no advice on what to tell them then. No-one even able to give a reason why it is there?

With classical art, there are plenty of naked men as well. So that makes explanations much much easier.
With the sun though the reason is that many men like looking at naked women, and it is so important that they need to be able to do it on the bus every morning. And why there are images of this type of women in the paper but not of men - which boils down to sexism and homophobia. I don't feel comfortable telling them that.

why dont you you something about Ann summers then. rather than say others should start there

why you need strangers advice on how to discuss various topics with your kids?
you will have your own preferences,your own discursive style,all informed by your pov

MN is full of people asking for advice on how to discuss stuff with their kids. What with it being a parenting site, and all.

I think the reason that no-one is suggesting an honest, straightforward way of explaining the presence of topless women in a daily newspaper to young children, is because there isn't one.

I don't like page three but whether it should be banned is a different question. I loathe Anne Summers and certainly think that should be banned from city centres. What is the point of making a big fuss about porn on line when there is this debasing vile stuff on the high streets.

are you saying you genuinely cannot construct a conversation about p3 with child
well,lets see it will be a discussion informed by your pov,and an acknowledgement p3 distasteful
as parents we filter,frame and explain all kind stuff to our kids,like the woolwich killing

sounds like you can't Scottish