I want to come back to feminism, but...

[practicallyimperfect]

I find it difficult to reconcile the working women having it all. I used to be a feminist, read loads, campaigned etc, but after I had my son I found it difficult. I don't want to have to work, or be the breadwinner. I want to stay at home with my son. I changed my name when I got married, mainly as I hated my maiden name- not very feminist!

Is it too late for me?

I would call myself a feminist.

I changed my name when I got married, and am a SAHM.

Do you have to be a working mum to be a feminist?

I may get a flaming as I am not a usual feminism poster, but I would count myself as a feminist, and in my opinion, feminism is having the right to choose. You can choose to go out to work and not be expected to stay at home as soon as you are married or have children, but you can also (in agreement with your partner) decide that the best thing for you and your family is for you to stay at home.

Some families may decide it's best for the man to stay at home, some the woman, some for both to go to work.

Oh, I have not been on the feminism board for a while. That is a shame.

IMO, feminism is about political, economic and social equality of the the sexes, but also about tolerance of others' decisions.

Reality - I thought that might happen. Have thought about posting on these threads a few times and then thought that my thought on the subject don't seem o it the majority view.

Still think it's about choice though. And being an equal partner with dh where we work out together what works for us.

I don't think anyone on these threads says you can't be a SAHM and a feminist. The choice arguement is generally IMO challanged when it relates to women doing things like porn or lap dancing and it is too ealry in the morning and I am too inarticulate to explain why. You will find the arguments on here robust but they certainly streach your thinking.

I don't see why wanting to be a SAHM means you can't be a feminist or hang about the Feminism thread. I thought there were women from all walks of life on here; SAHMs, working mums, students.

That's a shame if you feel unwelcome. Has anything in particular happened to make you feel unwelcome? Have I missed a big thread about SAHMs?

See I knew someone far more articulate than me would be along soon :)

Interesting post, Rhadegunde.

I cannot work here, due to problems with the health insurance system. So I guess I have no "choice" (although I could work but would risk spending more on health care than I could earn).

I have definitely seen posts saying you are letting down feminists if you are a SAHM - which is why I too haven't posted in this topic for ages, even though I do consider myself a feminist.

I think that lots of feminists see the reality of the "choiceless choice" and simply want to open that up for debate. Until SAHDs are as common as SAHMs, or at least until the discussion is broader than that of earning reality and potential vs cost of childcare, then we still have a long way to go.

And don't forget, Xenia is only one voice on here and actually has a lot of interesting stuff to say among the, erm, robust opinions.

I am reading "The Whole Woman" and Greer is fairly stark in her explosion of the myth of "having it all". And in shining the light on the amount of unpaid work that SAHMs do. It's information like that which leads to a true choice. For this feminist, understanding the full implications and ramifications of the options in front of me is the most important thing.

I was initially a SAHM by choice, but now the option to choose has been taken away from me because, thanks to our shitty patriarchal, anti-child, anti-family culture, it was not possible for one of us (DH or I) to care for our children in the way we thought best and for us both to be able to maintain enough work in our careers to be able to stay in them. This is what is wrong IMO.

Also, what is wrong is that my work is not valued by society because it is a) not paid and b) based within the family.

My feminist utopia would include workplaces and work times being completely overhauled so that children can be much more a part of adult life and so you don't have to choose; and that whatever work someone chose that contributed to society, that it is valued whether it's paid or not; and whether it's paid well or poorly.

I'm angry that the choice has been taken away from me now by the way our society runs - it's not feminist; it's not pro-family (despite the oft-repeated accusation taht feminism is anti-family, I feel it is actually the opposite); it's not pro-children.

"It's people who don't know much about feminism who spout the "choice" line."

You're right, Dittany. I was certainly spouting it a few years ago!

Now I know better.

I am a feminist from the 70s. Re sahm I was one myself a few years ago (apart from working 1 day). The think that annoys me is that jobs/roles traditionally 'women's roles' are seen as less valuable than 'men's roles'. Just because you dont go out to work it DOES NOT mean your role is any less worthwhile. Infact, bringing up children is one of the most important roles in society. As for changing you name, that is up to you. I changed my name when I got married, that was my choice.

Practically, it sounds like although you read loads and called yourself a feminist, you have fallen foul of antifeminist tropes since having your son?

Because no-one says that to be a feminist you have to work for pay, nor that changing your name kicks you out of the club.

And even if they did, would you seriously let an individual opinion or two stop you from believing that women are human beings who deserve equal rights to men?

Lots of people call themselves feminists. Sarah fucking Palin lays claim to that title, or so I understand. but if you believe that women and men should be equal, and recognise that as things stand we are not - we'd like you to call yourself a feminist again and stand with us.

One of the "problems" for feminism about women being SAHMs for a long period is that in the long run this "choice" has led to many older women living in poverty. Our society doesn't reward SAHPs financially, and women who are SAHMs lose a huge amount of earning potential. Which leads to having no or tiny pensions, especially if they separate from the father of their children.

So there is an issue with the links between SAHM - lack of job or earnings potential in later life - poverty in old age. That is NOT to say there's anything wrong with being a SAHM, and most feminist do argue for valuing unpaid domestic work and childcare more highly. But the long term impact of being a SAHM in terms of gender equality can be problematic, and feminists worry about this.

Choice feminism, in my opinion seems to stem from attempts to justify why we should regard our bodies as a commodity to be prettifed and pimped out for commercial gain. I think this is more to do with capitalism and the prevaling meme that only the economically active are of value in society.
As aomeone who is at home with two small boys I am more aware of feminism than I have been for a long time.Even though my eldest is not yet three I am infuriated on a daily basis by the lazy stereopyping of toys, behaviorand any other aspect of their lives as being due to their sex. I do think you need a robust sense of self worth to be happy doing something which is regarded as low/no status, no matter how valuble you think it is

"Working because you have to or because you can't afford the childcare isn't a real 'choice'."

Strangely don't the majority of people, regardless of sex, have to work..to pay bills, live etc?? Why should women have a choice that men don't?

I often think the same when people go on about how women should have the choice to work or not. The way I tend to think about it now is there are two ways we can do things - either everyone supports themselves financially as an individual and anyone who wants to have children has to find a way to make it work somehow. Or we can have the option of marriage/the 'family unit' which provides a mechanism for dividing up the paid and unpaid work between a couple in a way that is often more practical and makes more sense financially.

Of course that should not automatically mean 'woman stays home, man goes to work', so for that reason the gendered rhetoric about women's choices is a bit annoying.

And I do realise the second option makes sense for a lot of people, but personally I am wary of it for myself, because of the baggage and expectations it carries, and that it seems so easy to go from that to the sort of relationship where the woman is essentially a servant to her partner, and I could not live like that.