Discussion about Charles Spencer's book - Swan Song : Diana, my sister , Beautiful, Beloved, Hunted.

[BasiliskStare]

I know there is a thread about the theft of some pre publication editions of this book.
This thread is more by way of a book club discussion about the actual book , the text. Threads will go where they will , but my intention is this is more for me to give my opinion on the book and for others who read it or are interested in the book to join in. I have pre-ordered from Kindle (half price otherwise I may not have 😊) But is only available on September 22nd. So a holding place if you like.

Yes. Maybe it will be more objective when writing about other parts of Diana's life? I suppose the papers were bound to want to serialise the bits around her death first.

Exactly, Diana didn't ask for a divorce, the Queen told them to end it late 1995, and as @MrsLeonFarrell said, there's a definite 21st century tendency to retcon homosexuality into historical figures. It's a lazy way to get attention.

However, I believe Charles Spencer is indulging in that nasty habit of some in the 1990's & early 2000's of using the insult of "he's gay" as a homophobic slur designed to humiliate and degrade. But the gay plague slur leftover from the AIDs epidemic and those with a homophobic bent seems very much typical of Charles Spencer. In many ways he's very juvenile and he hates Charles Windsor.

No i don’t think that shows anything,
They were not there when these phone calls happened so can’t verify it.
Spencer is a serial cheat -so an accomplished liar one would assume.
Dianas sisters have never spoken about her, never made any money out of her.
Jane was widowed not that long ago -I don’t suppose they like any of this but want to keep living their quiet lives -and I cant say I blame them.
But their silence does not mean Spencer is being truthful.
It’s simply their MO.

one thing that has always struck me. I would hate my exdh (or both of them in my instance) to attend my funeral.
The families were pretty well interwoven though.

@DaisyDooley Jane was widowed two years ago

He isn’t ‘defending’ her though.
There hasn’t been an attack on her .
‘Many people’? Who are they?
What has the Palace said that has ‘manipulated the narrative around Diana’??
What has been said by the Palace since the wedding of the King & Queen in 2005?
How is selling his sisters memory AGAIN and bringing dreadful pain to Prince William bringing any ‘justice’ to Diana? You might be pleased about that but l dont suppose her eldest son is.
It’s bringing NOTHING to the memory of Diana and certainly no ‘justice’.
All that’s being discussed is The King &Spencer.
You are delusional if you think this is anything but a money making revenge attack. Spencer is not doing this for his sister -he’s doing it for himself because he’s a nasty bastard and a greedy greedy man. Diana is simply a cash cow to him and has been since the day she died. 30 years later and he’s still at it,
Still, 8 kids and 3 ex wives must be pretty expensive - although his adult children don’t seem to like him or see him so I suppose his Christmas gift list isn’t as long as it could be.

Well that’s a lot less than the 29 years since Diana died isn’t it!

I shared this on another thread but I think it’s worth repeating.

Charles S had his funeral eulogy printed and bound and put on sale in the Althrop gift shop for £30!

He even set up signing sessions for it on a regular basis - not sure if you paid more for signed copy.

I imagine he’ll create a nice bundle package of the new book and the eulogy now.

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/9830506/princess-dianas-brother-lord-spencer-selling-copies-eulogy-funeral-sign/

CS has given a lot of detail of the burial in the book, of how the heavy coffin had to be carried carefully across the pontoon, he's named who dug the grave and so on. There are many people who think Diana isn't actually buried on the island at all, but was secretly interred in a local church with other Spencer relatives. I wonder if any of this will change their minds.

I’ve just watched Richard Kay being interviewed on Palace Confidential and honestly it’s incendiary stuff. He has basically confirmed what Charles Spencer has said is true.

He also confirmed Charles Spencer’s shock at how Prince Charles during the funeral negotiations, was completely focused on his own emotional needs being met above the pain of the Spencer family and even of his own sons.

Shocking stuff. KC is not coming well out of this at all.

I believe that this was because he was asked for a copy of it so many times by members of the public that he got copies made. Why not? It’s a great speech! Living history!

This was also covered in Palace Confidential The late Queen Elizabeth when questioned about her reaction to the speech, said that she felt CS was entitled to say what he wanted to say. So if the late Queen didn’t object, I don’t see why anyone else should?

And as we now know, QE2 offered to give Diana her HRH back after the funeral, so she can’t have been that offended.

What was his point about the guy lurking behind a tree at the burial ? Was it Charles security, and he was making a point about not being told he would be there ?

This is a public forum, people can post what they want. The book hasn’t been launched yet so people are idly gossiping waiting for the release and to hear Basil and other posters, who’re taking one for the team, wise words!

So you are going to ignore the ops request then , even though there are already threads set up and being used for that purpose.

Thank you @smilesy you've clarified that nicely

Yes @HoppityBun , I absolutely agree with you "But if the book is purporting to discuss historical events, then it’s essential to consider what’s claimed in the book against external evidence." Any contemporaneous or other accounts or evidence which shed light on what CS has actually written in his book , yes , that's important in discussing it. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

It is a public forum, but threads on the forum vary. Some are general, others have specific topics, and are guided by the OP.

@BasiliskStare has been clear that as there are other general threads discussing different aspects of Earl Spencer's relationship with the KIng, she would prefer this one to stick primarily to the topic of the book, and currently the extracts that have been published.

Sorry, crossposted with @BasiliskStare

I thought that was the point he was making, @Thedom.

Oh god! Boredom got the better of me and I started reading one of the extracts kindly posted above.

Got to this bit “In that moment, when fantasy surely took hold of my overloaded senses, I felt that Diana was applauding my words, with soft insistence.”

And had to give up! Just trying so hard to be profound, and the “with soft insistence” is so bloody florid it’s almost a parody!

On another note PPs mentioned Diana’s sisters so I had a quick google. Apparently Lady Jane Fellowes has never given any interviews about Diana and her other sister has only done 3.

So much more respectful. I think CS is probably seriously regretting this book release and wasn’t expecting such a backlash. Hope the finacial reward was worth it to him. Because he appears to have burnt many a bridge.

Was that really what he wrote?? , umm 🤔, no , no comment…what you said!

I’ve just watched Richard Kay being interviewed on Palace Confidential and honestly it’s incendiary stuff. He has basically confirmed what Charles Spencer has said is true.

How does he know? Was he listening in on the conversations?

Sorry , I haven't read all posts , but I have just read the second excerpt. Thank you @bluegreygreen . I do have to agree with @PlotTwistPending , CS doesn't avoid a bit of purple prose does he - no Hemingway he.
These thought are dashed down somewhat - I'll think more carefully when I read the whole thing - but given he had talked about W&H in eulogy as "blood family" ( as indeed are the Windsors btw ) when he was talking about H in the train needing a hug, I thought , well why don't you give him one then , you're his uncle. That's a personal reaction. These excerpts obviously don't contain footnotes so as and when I'd be interested to know eg how he knows QEII replied "tetchily" to the news of the accident. He is clearly very concerned about Diana being a Spencer and being feeling the RF were taking over the funeral arrangements , but I don't think it's quite clear how much was done sensitively or not as you can sense his anger at KC even being involved.

That's just brief initial thoughts - I'll have more with more reading and digesting I am sure.

I watched it, what I took from it is that he is just recounting what is in the book, (sounds like he has had a pre release copy), and commenting on it.

He didn’t corroborate anything really, he did say he believed Charles S had made some notes, but I think he said Charles would have been writing down instructions, he also said Charles told him things and as a journalist he also made notes, but he didn’t say what about !. He was very close to Charles mother and used to go stay with her, so strong family connection with the Spencer’s.,

No actually. It was a lot more than just recounting what was in the book.

Richard Kay said that Charles Spencer spoke to him at the time of the funeral and what he said at the time aligned very much with what was is written in the book.

Richard Kay chose his words very carefully.

And despite being very close to the Spencer family he was pretty balanced in what he said about Diana, about how exhausting she was, and about some other things in the book.

The fact that RK did question some things in the book makes his testimony about what the then Prince Charles said on the phone to CS all the more compelling.

Also, the comments Prince Charles allegedly made at Johnnie Spencer’s funeral for example. Again, utterly crass.

A lot of things that happened in the past are starting to make sense now. And it does not look good for King Charles who comes across as petulant and utterly self-absorbed.

It’s been known for many years that KC has always had character flaws and to be fair to him, from what I have been reading, it appears that many people in the establishment feel that he has become a better king than anyone imagined possible, despite these personal defects.

Nonetheless, what he said about Diana, no doubt during a moment of loss of control, was vindictive and heartless and sounds to me as much of a threat as anything else; and he did indeed go on to erase Diana’s memory, as Patrick Jephson, her former private secretary described;

“It’s not the palace…but advisors to Prince Charles, who over many years have crafted a systematic, sustained and expensive campaign to rehabilitate Camilla’s reputation and make her suitable to be the next Queen,” he said.

Jephson, who worked closely with Diana for eight years in all sorts of challenging circumstances, went on to say;

“This is linked, of course, to a pretty vile campaign to publicise a bogus psychiatric diagnosis that Princess Diana had a personality disorder.”

“This may have cost the Prince a lot of money, paying for PR spin doctors”

“I think it also raises ethical question marks over the methods they (Prince Charles’ PR representatives) have used.”

Note how specifically Jephson says at the beginning of that statement; very carefully, that it was not the palace but personal advisors to Prince Charles who did this.

I believe Charles Spencer I’m afraid.

The impression that then p Charles was over ridden by his dad on the coffin walk formation !

I'm with you @Pipedreams607. Well put.