Recommendations for a first family dog breed

[TheShins]

Can anyone recommend a breed for our first family dog? We have two primary school aged children. We both work a mixture of office/at home so there is rarely a day with nobody in the house. We don't like large breeds or very small breeds. We are prepared to walk a dog twice a day. Ideally, we don't want a dog that sheds or has a tendency to bark a lot or pull too much on a lead as our children will want to join in walking the dog. Any ideas from experienced dog owners? Thanks!

Tibetan terrier? My in laws have one who has a lovely nature and doesn't shed.

Ooh I've never heard of that type of terrier. They look lovely! Adding to the shortlist.

Over on Dogsnet, a group of dogs are warning another that this potential home has more red flags than a Communist parade.
Sorry OP but...
Two primary school aged children
Working from home when not in the office
Rarely a day with nobody in the house - what happens when there isn't? Rarely is probably a significant underestimation too just because family life is busy and gets busier as kids get older.
Prepared to walk a dog twice a day.
Don't want a dog that sheds or has a tendency to bark a lot or pull too much on a lead
Our children will want to join in walking the dog.

It's a recipe for disaster and not fair on the dog.
You'll have difficulty getting one too from a reputable source.
I am not trying to be mean or negative but now is not the right time. Sorry.

Very few dogs don’t shed. All dogs pull on the lead to begin with, you have to train them properly for that to be avoided. I have a non shedding non leash pulling dog but he is very needy and does not like to be left alone at all. Having a dog for us means no spontaneous nights/days out, everything has to planned. That lack of spontaneity is even harder with kids.
Our first dog was a lab and he grew up with the kids who all adored him. He was brilliant and completely bomb proof however be shed like crazy and it took a lot of work to get him to walk nicely on a lead.

A miniature poodle ticks your boxes. I have one and she’s just perfect.

Are dogs not suitable for primary school aged children?
Are dogs not suitable for people who work from home?
Rarely means probably once a month and we have willing retired family members on hand to dog-sit on those rare days.

Yes, prepared. We are very active and out for walks regularly anyway.

We're not looking for a dog that doesn't shed at all but wouldn't really like a dog that sheds all over the place all the time. I'm sure there are no/low shedding breeds.
Can children not help walking dogs?

Thanks for your input.

Thank you. What breed do you currently have? We'd definitely be attending training classes. I think the lack of spontaneity is the biggest drawback of having pets isn't it. I think they're worth it though.

Are dogs not suitable for primary school aged children? Most good breeders and good rescues don't think so. Anyone willing to sell to you or allow you to adopt from them with primary aged children probably isn't a breeder or a rescue you'd want to use.

Can children not help walking dogs? Personally, when I see a young children holding a dogs lead, I cross the road with my dogs. It only ever ends one of two ways; (i) the dog lunging toward my dog, usually because its badly trained, even if its to say hello or, and more often (ii) me and my dogs being forced into the road regardless because the child has no control over the dog and it's wandering aimlessly across the pavement.

The dog you want; low shedding, not small or large, non-yappy, doesn't really exist. I can't think of a single dog breed that fits that criteria, suitable for a first time owner and suitable around young children....

Side note: most training classes are a waste of time. You sit there for most of the time, whilst your dog gets progressively more wound up, get lectured about things that even a nitwit should already know. By the time its finally your go to show a 'sit' the dog is totally distracted because there's loads of other dogs there & its bored as hell after spending ages doing sod all. Plus, most puppy training classes happen during witching hour which means your puppy won't learn anything anyway. And 99% of people seem to turn up to them having not taught their dog even fundamental basics like sit. Better to do 1-2-1 classes to reinforce what you teach the dog at home.

A Border terrier. Fun, cheerful, few health issues in the breed, a compact size but not too tiny, robust. The perfect family dog if you want a small to medium breed .

I have to say I disagree @TheHungryHungryLandsharks. Having kids and a dog has been hugely positive. All kids activities with the dog were supervised obviously but I think it’s an odd thing to say that kids and dogs don’t mix, that’s just not true.

Training classes for us were brilliant. We did the good citizen training scheme and put a lot of work into training our dog. The lessons were invaluable.

We currently have a Spanish water dog @TheShins. He doesn’t shed at all but I would not recommend the breed for first time dog owners. They are incredibly bright and switch on but need a lot of input.

@Girlintheframe I don't think I said they 'don't mix' I said allowing a young child to hold a dogs lead is bad idea for the reasons I set out. Slightly different.

But it still doesn't change the fact that good breeders won't be selling to OP with two primary aged children. And the only rescues that will give OP a shot are the irresponsible foreign ones where you get no support & a dog riddled with all sorts of behavioural problems. So it's a bit of a moot point anyway 😁

And training classes might have worked for you, but I have to say...waste of time and money IMO. But we're all entitled to different opinions. I personally don't think training schemes is necessarily a mark of having a well trained dog - much of it is designed to get you to spend money. A bit like swimming or gymnastics certificates children do. The important thing is being able to swim 50m, or in this case recall your dog from 50 meters away, not having the prize.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharkslots of families have dogs. Are you saying all these dogs have come from irresponsible breeders?

@Girlintheframe you're taking what I said out of context. I said 'primary aged' children. Not families. There's a difference. A family with two teenager children is a far more suitable environment than one with two primary aged children.

But yes, I think any breeder who sells a puppy to a family with two primary aged children is irresponsible (and particularly a family who have never had a dog before). And it's a thought shared my most good breeders I know, most breed clubs, and indeed most rescues.

We have almost the same set up as you @TheShins - 2 late primary kids, mixed WFH/Office, like walking and ready for a new dog, but scarred by the memory of having a very large, very moulty, very very active (dalmatian) dog when the kids were younger. I love border terriers and all my research so far suggests they could be a good match to what you (and us!) are looking for.

I'll have to have a look at border terriers. Thanks for the recommendation!

We have had a dog previously in our family but this would be our first dog since having children. My children are also late primary aged.

A Labrador is really the most sensible family pet for most people but they do tend to shed. But for new dog owners, young families, etc. you can’t really beat a Labrador. They’re not my thing but they are a sensible choice!

I don’t agree about the young kids thing either. Of course good breeders will sell to families with primary school children, it’s totally bizarre to say otherwise!

I do think there is a weird sort of subsection of ‘extreme’ dog people who are often childfree and really immersed in dog ‘culture’ who are very rabid about that kind of thing. I used to do agility with our (very well bred) cocker spaniel and I met a few of those types, their lives were almost entirely around their dogs, but in the real world that most of us inhabit, good breeders are happy for family breeds of dogs to go to family homes.

I've never heard of the idea that all families with children are unsuitable for having a dog. Obviously, some breeds are less suitable for living with children and nervous or older dogs from a rescue might not like to live in a busy household but a blanket stance of 'you have children, no dog for you' seems extreme. I know dozens of families at our primary school that have dogs.

I like Labradors but I don’t agree that they are the ideal dog for a family. They are a real handful when young and are slow to mature. As puppies they are very bitey and chewy. They grow into nice dogs but they are big and strong and can easily knock a child over. My brother’s Labrador pulled me over, even though he didn’t really pull that much.

Bedlington terrier should tick a lot of your boxes, but some things like pulling on the lead are training issues

Just to mention, don’t get a cockapoo, or any poodle cross. They remain very popular with families but they are not ideal.

The crosses aren’t ethically bred by conscientious breeders. They are often imports or are from puppy farms. Therefore they aren’t bred from healthy parents, with all the health checks in place.

I’m biased but you can have everything you want in a dog with a miniature poodle. I often get asked if my poodle is a cockapoo or cavapoo. People are genuinely surprised when I say she’s an actual poodle.

@TheShins @runnerducky

*primary aged. Not families with dogs. The distinction is quite clear...but I feel that's rather sailing over people's heads.

As someone who owns, breeds, and is involved in the rescue world of a 'family friendly' breed and doesn't go a week without hearing of her breed biting a small child...or being re-homed because of severe behavioural issues as a result of negligent ownership by these same families with young children , in her area, it's not 'extreme' or 'not living in the real world' at all. I want what is best for the dogs I breed, and all other puppies, as should all breeders - and that is rarely a family with primary aged children.

People are perfectly entitled to think otherwise. But, based off what I see and hear about as a breeder and someone involved in the breed rescue world, yeah families with young children are the absolute worst for installing bad behaviours and damaging their dog. At one point, out of the 20 dogs I helped re-home in a month only one didn't come from a home with primary aged children.

You can't argue with those stats, I'm afraid. Well...you can, but it would be pointless. 😂

Are you looking for a puppy or a rescue?

The questions i'd ask yourself before getting any dog are

1. Are the kids dog friendly? By this I mean, do they know that when the dog is sleeping, you leave it... no grabbing at the dog... no holding the lead to walk the dog (unless you want an injured kid if the dog sees a squirrel)... etc.
2. Are the kids willing to change their current days out (assuming you go to farms, playgrounds, cinema, aquariums, theme parks etc etc - none of which are dog friendly)
3. Will the kids cope ok if they get nipped (in the puppy stage)
4. Will the kids cope ok if you get a rescue that ends up being aggressive towards other dogs or people when out (as you can never really know)

I'm not someone who thinks dogs and kids can never mix - but generally when i see it working, its the families who love weekends walking in the country, have been around animals since really young so kids are not over excited by the dog etc.

I have a dog and no kids and find that when i meet up with friends and their kids, either my dog doesnt come as most kid places dont allow dogs, or we go for a walk in the country and the kids are fighting over who holds the lead or trying to play with the dog who doesnt want to play etc and i end up getting annoyed with the kids!

Such bullshit about primary age kids and dogs!!! What are people supposed to do if you have dogs all the time then? Have them put down when you have a kid and then get one again when your kid goes to high school?? Complete bollocks kids and dogs are great.

@mylittledoggie there's no need to swear. Although I'm sure you didn't mean to, it comes across as a tad aggressive.

The fact is, lots of dogs get returned to the breed, or to rescues, because of incidents with children. And actually a lot of people dump their dogs after having children because 'it's too hard'...Lily Allen being a case in point. Or Jennifer Lawrence. Or indeed the woman on MN right now who's doing it.

A study was done a few years ago from a hospital in the UK. They had (roughly) a dog bite on a child every three day over the course a year (195 bites in the year). Of that 52% of bites were on the child's face or head. That was one hospital, in one city, in the UK.

Around 80% of attacks on children by dogs, are by the family pet in the home. Most of the time, the child is under 9 years old.

The facts - as reported by multiple charities, the news, the police, the NHS and university research - are, quite literally, disagreeing with you and agreeing with me.