Do decent breeders advertise on Pets4Home?

[ShirleyPhallus]

I have been researching getting a pup for years but it’s never been the right time. But now DH and I are WFH for good, our child is a bit older and we have a decent space / garden etc I’ve been putting more in to it

We have found a few decent looking breeders who are KC registered and on champdogs (which I think is a good site?). It seems all the decent breeders have really shonky looking sites and btinternet email addresses so having to look a bit beyond that to see what heritage of their dogs is / health scores / eyes / hips / elbows etc etc.

But a few of them also advertise on Pets4Home with the advert saying “KC registered....”. Which then got me down a bit of a hole and I have seen plenty of KC registered parent litters on Pets4Home.

I always thought that site was pretty synonymous with puppy farming and that a decent breeder would have huge waiting lists but it seems some KC registered pups are available on there.

What’s the view here? Can you get decent breeders on there or best to steer clear?

A large number of breeders use the site - some of them are better than others. A large number of domestically bred puppies are on the site - some from better homes than others. It is not about the site - the site is simply a place for advertising. It is up to you to do your homework and check everything is above board and reasonable. I've been more than one KC registered breeder I wouldn't touch with a bargepole; and plenty of puppies bred in loving homes that make wonderful and healthy pets.

A lot of people will come here and say 'good breeders don't advertise' or a hatred towards that site.

I view it as simply a place to advertise. Be very wary and cautious if you do use the site, as Otis a place where puppy farmers advertise and use lots of tricks to make themselves look reputable.

But we got our dog through the site. She was a 'back yard breeder' so no KC status, but health tested parents and lovely people. Still keep in touch now and again.

I am looking for a fairly unusual breed and had this exact discussion with one of the better know breeders of this breed, as I was surprised to see a litter advertised on Pets4Homes, as, like you, I assumed long waiting lists.

She was very pragmatic and advised that Pets4Homes is generally used when it is a first litter, so the breeder isn't known so doesn't have that pent up demand/waiting lists. That makes a lot of sense.

Please do not confuse KC registered with a good breeder.

You can register any litter with the KC as long as both parents are KC registered and paperwork is complete. You need to look for a KC accredited breeder. These are breeders who have been inspected by the KC and have been approved.

Which breed are you looking into getting? This will give you a list of several health checks both parents should have before breeding - larger dogs should have hip scores etc.

The sign of a good breeder is one that will have and provide to you relevant health testing - not just a vet check. KC accredited status and also now depending on how often they breed should have a licence from the local council.

Many people on here will say no, avoid.
But they have to advertise somewhere, and it’s one of the biggest and well known sites.

Use it as a starting point, and then do you own research into the individual.

But yes, I know many KC registered, licensed, decent respectable breeders who advertise on there.

All of my litters have been KC registered, hip checked etc and I always used it to advertise as quite simply, so many people look there as a first step.

There are lots of giveaways for puppy farms - generally around here the images are of puppies in a tiled enclosure and give their address as close to a motorway.

'Please do not confuse KC registered with a good breeder.' AGREE AGREE AGREE!!!! Loads of dogs (even from puppy farms) can be KC registered, and that doesn't mean anything re: socialisation or how they are being treated.

You mentioned Champdogs - usually a good site - but why don't you contact the breed registry for the dog you want? We wanted to try and find a niche puppy, and contacted the breed association, and they bent over backwards helping us, and letting us know of reputable breeders with upcoming litters. These are the type of litters that go by word of mouth, and are often of very quality standard. In the first instance, I would try that - and stay very much clear of Pets4Homes (it's just too big a risk to take, and you may end up with a sick puppy!).

Thank you thank you!! This is all such helpful information in what’s a bit of a minefield.

We aren’t 100% set on the breed yet, we want something family friendly and an easy companion.

I hate the mention it because I know there’s a LOT of strength of feeling around “designer” mixes but poodle mixes presumably won’t be with KC registered breeders because they aren’t KC registered?

You mentioned Champdogs - usually a good site - but why don't you contact the breed registry for the dog you want? great advice, thank you!

KC purely means pedigree. TBH If it’s a poodle mix you want you are unlikely to find a decent breeder. People who breed decent poodles want to breed better poodles. Not mixes. And a mix isn’t a predictable thing.
I would rather approach a reputable rescue or go for a pedigree and go through the breed club.

I tend to stay away from breeder thread as MN has a very specific view on it and it gets scary!

Re doodle crosses.

A breeder I know personally, training qualifications coming out of their ears, working champion with many dogs, scentwork experience and veterinary nurse in a past life. Has bred cockers for many years now breeds cocker poodle crosses.

I almost want a puppy as they just have the best start in life.

All health tested for all popular issues plus rare issues. Bitches are treated so well during pregnancy with mental health as important as physical health.

The puppies are socialised as well as I have ever seen. All puppies leave at 8 weeks pretty much toilter trained, all car happy, and used to crate and being on their own for short periods. All puppies socialsed to people of all ages and different locations, all puppies happy with other dogs when they leave the breeder.

All puppies sent off with 12 weeks insurance and food for the first 6 weeks.

All puppies leave with basic skills in recall and are used to collars harnesses and basic husbandry.

Life time support and training is free and always available.

So back to the OP ask around, ask people with dogs about their breeders, draw up a list that is important to you and grill the breeder to see if they can deliver.

Do remember health tests are important but more dogs are rehomed due to behavioural issues which start at 4 weeks gestation so be prepared to question deeply.

Take your time and do not be rushed into any decision. If it feels wrong it is wrong.

You need to look for a KC accredited breeder. These are breeders who have been inspected by the KC and have been approved.

Unfortunately, it really isn't as simple as this. The KC Assured (not Accredited) Breeders Scheme has good intentions, but unfortunately it often fails by giving a veneer of respectability to puppy farmers, there are lots on the scheme. One of the accolades is purely about volume, and I suppose you could at least look to avoid any breeders who only have this accolade. Being a member of the scheme - which in some breeds doesn't require any health testing - is a no brainer for puppy farmers as they can then advertise every litter free of charge.

Buying dogs is hard now. There are no easy answers on avoiding the bad breeders that some won't get round, and none of the advice below is foolproof.

Good breeders often don't advertise, but I honestly wouldn't get hung up on where those that do advertise choose to do it. Assuming from your post that you are looking for a breed which can be KC registered, I would actively look for someone who shows as this demonstrates length of time in the breed. Check in with the relevant breed club to find out both what health tests should have been done AND what the results should be. (Amazing how many people ask if pups have been tested but don't actually ask what the result was!) Make sure you read up and understand this.

It used to be easier to say avoid licensed breeders like the plague, but new regulations make that a bit foggy. If you aren't going to someone with a demonstrable record in the breed, and if they are licensed, then I would ask for their licence details and enquire with the relevant authority as to what they are licensed for - anything in to double numbers of breeding bitches and I'd probably walk away in the absence of any other evidence of them being a decent but larger show kennel.

For a pedigree breed, never accept an unregistered litter - there are no good reasons not to register a pedigree dog, but there are lots of bad reasons why breeders don't (age of parents, number of litters, endorsed for health reasons etc.).

Again, Champdogs is not foolproof, but it does at least make some effort to ensure that appropriate health tests for the breed are done.

We did when we bred our labrador (as a one off). Most of her puppies went to people we knew in the local area but the two that were left we put on pets4homes.

We recieved so many enquiries, and we were very selective with who we chose. I think it was very obvious to buyers that the mum was our family dog (and they were able to see the dad too). Puppies had all their kc papers, vaccinations, scans etc. Parents had health check, hip scores etc.

Do your research. It is usually pretty easy to pick out the puppy farms. If something doesn't sit right, back out...there is no rush. You will find your forever pup in the end.

Thank you all so much, this is really interesting and useful.

@Whitney168 this is exactly our struggle. I have almost researched too much. It seems that on MN there is only pure KC breeds or rescues which may come with a host of problems (and we wouldn’t be able to get, due to having a young child). Sensible advice there, thanks

What breed are you looking for, @ShirleyPhallus?

Sorry to not be contributing, but I just have to ask, what's the problem with a btinternet email address?!

@Whitney168

What breed are you looking for, *@ShirleyPhallus*?

I’m not sure yet, maybe a lab / cocker spaniel / poodle, or any combo of those. Possibly a labradoodle or something

Still researching before deciding!

@Chunkymenrock

Sorry to not be contributing, but I just have to ask, what's the problem with a btinternet email address?!

Ha ha! It just seems a bit old fashioned and not very professional. Was hoping for a flashy website with a breeder email address but they’re not as high tech as that!

Lol at the btinternet address. It’s only one step more modern than a fax! Good luck with your search.

@SwanShaped

Lol at the btinternet address. It’s only one step more modern than a fax! Good luck with your search.

One breeder asked me to page her!!!!

One of our dogs came from a Pets 4 Homes ad. I just did my due diligence very, very thoroughly.

Make sure you visit the home - you should be able to tell if the bitch is the dam of the puppies, and if the breeder and the bitch have a good rapport. See if the breeder will FB friend you - that lets you check each other out, and is a way to keep in touch. Let them ask you a lot of questions (the breeder of our Pets4Home puppy went so far as to home-check us, which I've never known another breeder do). Ask them a lot of questions and make sure the answers tie up (with each other, with the FB page, with any pedigree or health info you have seen or been given).

I should say, our Pets4Home dog is bloody lovely - solid temperament, biddable and intelligent, with very good conformation and breed type.

If you are a dog lover I wouldn’t.
So many rescues are choc a bloc with dumped dogs, why not try this route first.
So many bitches are being over bred to keep up with insane demand for dogs at the moment, I just think it’s unethical supporting these industrial breeding programmes.

Just bought a puppy from a breeder who advertised on Pets4homes. Couldn't be happier. The whole process was wonderful. The most important thing for me was the relationship I formed with the breeder

@Sadsiblingatsea

If you are a dog lover I wouldn’t. So many rescues are choc a bloc with dumped dogs, why not try this route first. So many bitches are being over bred to keep up with insane demand for dogs at the moment, I just think it’s unethical supporting these industrial breeding programmes.

I have a young child and none of the 10+ rescues we contacted would take us

I got my ddog from that site a year ago. Not a breeder but family with mum and dad as family dogs.

I still continue to look at adverts every day and I'm so glad I didn't go for one if those KC registered breeders. Quite a few have dogs for sale every month. I can only imagine they are not classes a puppy farm because they know the right boxes to tick on the day of inspection. I can't imagine all those breeding dogs are loved and sherished like the parents of my puppy were.

They sell their puppy for £2,000 to £3,000, when rrge breed otherwise go for £1500 average. Clearly in the business to make money.

I think the assumption that these breeders are ethical compared to families breeding their pets (whilst doing check and ensuring good vet care) is laughable.

Re the kids thing and rescue dogs

This is rescues being responsible. They do have kid friendly dogs signed over but right now those are so high in demand they get 200 applications and are found a new home in days.

Other dogs will have behavioural requirements that make them not kid safe - and they may well have been signed over precisely because they were jumping all over kids in their home, or had snapped at kids while being roughly handled, or had stolen snacks from kids and growled when kids try to take things back. Or they may have been so under socialised they may have never seen a child. Or they’re a huge young boisterous breed that will send an adult flying let alone a child.

Rescues have a duty of care to their dogs to rehome them to forever homes and not have them handed back shortly after adoption because it wasn’t what the adoptee had thought it would be. Handing back is sadly quite common and can really mess up a dog even more. Rescues try hard but adoptees can overestimate what they can take on. Be honest with rescues.

Every dog that isn’t listed as suitable for kids was once a puppy and a blank canvas that could have been trained to be kid friendly but humans failed them.