Lepto vaccine - did you have it done?

[messofajess]

I went with the breeder to have our new pups first jabs done. She was adamant that the pup mustn't have the lepto vaccine.

I have been reading up on the it this evening and I think I am going to take the pup back tomorrow to have the lepto vaccine.

I'm incredibly nervous - has anyone had a dog die from the vaccine? Or even known anyone that had a dog die? Its too late to phone my vet now so does anyone know if he can have the vaccination a day after his others?

Do you mean the L4 vaccine.

Yes I have had my dog vaccinated and do so every year for L4. I am a pro vaccine person myself and weigh up risks of a potential side effect from a vaccine against the risk of getting the disease of whatever I am vaccinating for. I am no different to vaccinating my dogs as I am for myself.

Only you can decide whether you feel the risk of any potential side effects from a vaccine is greater for you personally than the risk of getting the disease.

What I would recommend is to talk to your vet about the pros and cons and risks beforehand and then make your mind up yourself rather than relying on random people on the internet.

Remember even if you are booked in for a vaccination a good vet should answer all your questions with facts during the consultation and should equally be happy for you to decline there and then and I say that as someone who is generally pro vaccine

This is the veterinary medicine directorate who receives all reports of adverse reactions statement that L4 has no greater incidence of adverse reaction than L2.

I had L2 done but not L4 - on the recommendation of my vet who chooses not to vaccinate agsinst L4 routinely because L2 covers everything that is common in the UK (L4 covers more strains but these are not common here) plus the L4 vaccine takes longer to be active once administered and so delays you being able to take puppy outside on the floor about by another couple of weeks.

L4 tends to be the controversial one so I would guess she meant that one?

missbattenburg I asked my vet to split my vaccinations so we had the first at 8 weeks but then just the Parvo (can't remember everything it covered) one at 10 which meant he could walk on roads but still had to avoid boggy/stagnant water and forests at 11 weeks of age. We then had the second L4 at 12 weeks which meant another two weeks before we could walk everywhere.

Thanks so much for that lonecat

Thanks biteyshark I am definitely pro vaccine and asking randoms on the internet is only a very small part of how I am making my decision. I'm certainly not relying on it. There wasn't so much a consultation today - just me going with the breeder to get the first jabs done. My adult dog has had all his and his first annual boosters as well.

I was asking about both I guess? To be honest today is the first I heard about the controversy

Our Breeder used Nobivac and we did too as it is definitely safer statistically.

Apologies messofajess I didn't mean to imply that you would be relying on what was said but more that even if several of us including me have anecdotal evidence of for and against only you can decide whether the risk of vaccine versus risk of contracting disease is significant to you and where you reside.

I walk in forests, boggy muddy watery areas, farmlands, let BiteyDog swim in ponds frequented by many other animals etc so personally it made sense for me to vaccinate. You may have very different risks and thus what I do may not be relevant even though we had no obvious side effects from the vaccine.

No worries biteyshark I didn't mean to come across so defensive!
Pup will be walked on beaches mainly but the occasional forest and I live opposite farmlands.

He'll be getting L2 tomorrow if the vet can see us hopefully! I cant find any official statistics backing up the facebook groups and obscure news reports so I feel I would be letting him down if I didn't follow the science.

Biteydog sounds like he has a very lush life.

Thanks geekone hopefully my vet uses that one.

I've had it done.

It's worth noting that Lepto is also known as Weils Disease, which humans can get too. It can be incredibly dangerous, and I believe there's a chance of transmission from dog to human. Andy Holmes, an Olympic rower, died of it a few years back, so it's not something to mess around with.

I've had it done, my pup gets her second one next week. I'm pro-vaccine but I won't be giving her vaccines every year as I don't feel it's necessary. She'll have titre testing done instead and when she needs the vaccine she'll have it.

I am pro vaccine from the point of view of puppy jabs but I prefer titre testing thereafter.
As for lepto, our vet gives L2 and L4 is overkill in this country.
However lepto is easily treated if you know the symptoms. I also know of at least one dog who got lepto despite being vaccinated, so on balance I prefer not to give it as I'd rather look out for the symptoms rather than be lulled into a false sense of security.

You can’t titre test for lepto hence why it is given annually as the protection has been shown to wane at the 1 year mark. You can titre for distemper hepatitis and parvo however this is only given every 3 years routinely!

Lepto also isn’t easily treated - dogs die of it and frequently leaves damage to kidneys etc if they survive hence why it is silly not to vaccinate when the protection can be provided!

There is a study that says there are no more reactions to L4 than there are to L2 so why not give the additional protection!

L4 booster is every year whilst the others are typically every 3 years.

I chose L2. Our breeder said to avoid L4.

My vet uses Novibac. I have my dog vaccinated as he's a little sod for finding stagnant/dirty water and we have a lot of farm ditches/ponds around us. We've never had an issue and I'd rather be safe than sorry. There will always be dogs that react to vaccines as with humans, but you also don't know if they've picked an infection/virus up and their owner just assumes it is the lepto vaccine.

CocoaGin70 my dog is the same, spots a pond of stagnant water that also cows/horses and undoubtedly rats have swam in and thinks it's great to have a wallow in it and yeah it tastes great as well.

Vaccinations are always controversial whether human or animal which is why people should have a frank conversation with the vet about facts and figures to decide.

@Waveymaevey dogs die if owners don't recognise the symptoms.
It's bacterial and treatable with antibiotics

Pup had his L2 this morning - vet was very happy I came back and explained that in our area he has seen a lot of cases. Also explained weighing up L2 and L4.

Pup did vomit once when we got home, had a long nap and is now tearing the house, me and adult dog apart again.

wavey yes I also wanted to get L4 initially but vet said the strains it covers aren't common here and the wait time is longer. So I chose to rather start socialising him earlier. If the wait time was the same I'd definitely have done 4.

Fairfax yes lepto can be treated with antibiotics, but it is expensive the last case we treated was 2K. That dog was previously fit and healthy and presented with 24 hours of vomiting. The dog had no temperature and no really obvious clinical signs, but 20 years of clinical experience told me in my gut something was really wrong with the dog and I advised admission and bloods. At that point there was obvious jaundice one of the common signs. Part of the cost is due to the barrier nursing required to protect other patients and humans and all of the waste has to be disposed of a hazardous waste which is considerably more expensive than infectious/contaminated waste. The young and elderly are much, much more vulnerable and often die from lepto despite intensive nursing. One of the major complicating factors is that immune complexes can permanently damage the kidneys even with prompt antibiotic treatment.
Many insurance policies exclude conditions that can be vaccinated against so there is a risk you are not insured.

Absolutely not. It’s scaremonging

My old vet used to try and force us to have it done making me feel like my dog would die without it. I asked him in his 30 years of being a vet how many dogs he’d treated for lepto. He said 4.

There was a survey done and 100% of dogs which caught lepto all caught it just after their vaccination.

Not only that but dogs which have received this vaccine shed it through their urine and other body functions etc so if you have any family members with breathing problems or with a low immune system you’d be putting them at risk.

Also there’s no such thing as boosters. You can’t boost immunity there’s no such thing.
You’re either immune or you’re not

I used the term 'booster' as it is just a common term people use to say additional vaccines after a first one. The L4 is needed every year if you want to vaccinate against it. No one should be forced into anything as it should be a personal but informed choice.

However It’s scaremonging could be argued on both sides of the fence (to vaccinate or not).

Chippy I have no idea where your study data comes from, but I have diagnosed/ been involved in the treatment of a case of Lepto every single year since I graduated 20 years ago ( I live in a high risk area) every single case without exception has either never been vaccinated or it has been more than two years since the last lepto vaccination.
The lepto vaccine is an inactive vaccine so unable to cause disease.