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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Have I bought a farmed puppy?

31 replies

Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 08:24

We have recently bought a puppy. We have been planning this for at least 2 years and I was very aware of puppy farming and determined not to support this disgusting trade.
I started looking for a puppy about a month ago, spoke to a few KC reg breeders and rejected a couple that I felt didn't seem quite right. I spoke to one breeder who seemed really good, she asked me lots of questions and insisted the whole family come to meet the pups. We went over and it was a domestic setting with the 2 pups that were remaining and their mum ( who was lovely) and children in the house and the pups seemed really well socialised. The breeder gave us a choice of the 2 left from a litter of 13 and we chose one.
We agreed that the pup shouldn't come to us until after Xmas/New Year to make the transition for him easier and I spoke to the breeder twice more on the phone before we went to collect. She has also gave me a list of suggested supplies/food etc.
When we went to collect the breeder seemed in a bit of a rush, she had her coat on. Mum wasn't there just our pup, breeder said mum had gone to stay with a relative so pup got used to her not being there. We got the kC papers along with a receipt, list of his likes and dislikes, a vaccination record and the breeder give him a big kiss and cuddle before handing him over. She texted me the evening after we collected him to ask if he had settled in too.
All good so far but yesterday I got out the KC reg papers to change ownership and pup is 9 days younger than we were told, this means that although he is over 8 weeks now he was just 6 weeks when we first met him so all of his siblings should still have been with him. Also, the breeders address is in South Wales, several hundred miles away from where we got him.
He's healthy and happy and will be getting vet checked today but I have a nasty feeling the house where we got him from was jus a front. I feel awful about it but I realise there isn't a lot I can do now.

OP posts:
CMOTDibbler · 04/01/2016 08:38

It does sound that despite your best efforts, you have bought a pup from a front.

You could phone and ask about the discrepancies, but I doubt you'll get far alas.

Talk to your vet about the vaccs as the cert can be forged, so it may be as well to assume the pup hasn't had any.

flanjabelle · 04/01/2016 08:46

Op, you have tried your best. These people are very clever. They know that people know what to look out for now, and try even harder to deceive you. You need to watch your puppy very closely and keep an eye for any signs of illness.

I would also advise you to get a behaviourist in to help with any behavioural issues from being separated from mum too early and and lingering trauma from the pups awful start in life.

Would you consider passing the information you have over to the police and rspca? It might be a help in investigations they have into puppy farming.

My staffie is a rescue. she was bred and then used as a breeding bitch in a puppy farm. She was discarded when she had been so over bred that she had to have an emergency hysterectomy. She was no use to them anymore. She is the sweetest dog you could ask for and is so desperately grateful for her life with us. All is not lost with your pup, with the right care it could still be ok. Good luck op.

ottothedog · 04/01/2016 08:57

Are the kc papers genuine? Can you phone the breeder to find out? I think i would flag it with the kennel club as there are a lot of dubious goings on with kc papers. They probably wont do much mind you :(
What a shame :( it shows how clever they are at hiding their tracks

LyndaNotLinda · 04/01/2016 09:04

It does sound like it, sorry :(

I'd ring the KC and flag it to them - was the breeder registered with them? They shouldn't be.

Bubble2bubble · 04/01/2016 09:08

Sounds very much like it :(
I don't see any reason for the pups to be sold hundreds of miles away from the registered breeder.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 09:16

Thank you
I am going to phone the kennel club today. As for speaking to the RSPCA etc the breeder hasn't actually lied to us or misrepresented anything apart from his dob, which could be dismissed as a mistake. I know we aren't mistaken though as we even had a conversation about how odd it was he had been given a pedigree name related to Xmas when he had been born in late October.
Breeder said we were welcome to contact her vet at any time and I will ask my vet to do that today to confirm the vaccs. he has already ( hopefully) had.
He is eating and drinking and playing well and seems well sociallised. He has been introduced to a few people and our cats.Puppy classes are already booked. He goes n his crate happily, although he does whine a bit at being left. We have started clicker training too.
The really annoying thing is that I have generally good instincts about people, I'm actually pretty well known for it and I did have a tiny nagging doubt at the back of my head- I spoke to the breeder twice in between first visiting and collecting pup and she happily answered all my questions so I wrote it off as paranoia.
I think that I'm just going to have to try and forget it and do our best for him now. Right, just need him to sleep through the night now!!!!

OP posts:
Moving15 · 04/01/2016 09:17

Sounds dodgy unfortunately. However your pup will still be delightful and is lucky to have been picked by you.

For the benefit of anyone else who is thinking about getting a pedigree pup: go through the breed clubs rather than try to vet people all by yourself. It is not a guarantee but it is a better check than looking for kc assured breeders which can include anyone and they might not even have been checked. The kc is ultimately a big register, its like asking the registry office to verify the standard of care where babies are born. It's flawed from the outset. Much better to check someone's reputation with other breed experts who understand the history of the breed and the current health improvement initiatives for that breed.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 09:56

Thank you
Whatever his start he will be getting nothing but the best from now on.

OP posts:
Floralnomad · 04/01/2016 10:04

That sounds like a classic puppy farm set up . I'm sure your puppy will be fine ,lots of dogs have less than ideal starts and are perfectly good family pets . What I will say is that most good breeders have waiting lists for pups ,they are not normally still hawking them about at 6/ 8 weeks old .

FairyBiker · 04/01/2016 10:50

OP you haven't mentioned what breed your puppy is.

Someone local to me bought what they thought was an 8 week old beagle it was actually a 6 week old fox hound!

Shock
MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 04/01/2016 10:59

Are you sure it's the breeders address that is several hundred miles away? Are you sure it's not the address of the stud dog they used?

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 04/01/2016 11:17

Saying that, no reputable breeder would breed puppies to coincide with Christmas. Sad

SuperCee7 · 04/01/2016 11:24

Reputable breeders usually have homes lined up before the bitch is even pregnant. Having pups ready to go hundreds of miles away from the breeders address at Christmas time (a time of year responsible breeders tend to avoid) sounds dodgy. I hope your pup is happy and healthy.

SuperCee7 · 04/01/2016 11:25

At a PP said could it be the stud dog that's hundreds of miles away? Responsible breeders will travel hundreds of miles for a good stud with a good line and to prevent unknowingly breeding with the dogs relatives.

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 13:19

It's the name and address of the breeder that is several hundred miles away from where we got the puppy, although the name is the same.
This pup was supposedly available due to someone changing their mind, the other 11 were reserved from birth - I'm such an idiot!!
After reading all the advice on here and thinking I was doing everything right it looks like I haven't. I even had a checklist
Anyway, he's due at the vets this afternoon so we will see what she has to say.
If I'm still trying to clutch at straws the breeder did mention she farmed goats as well so perhaps her goat farm is in Wales? Still doesn't explain why they were being sold from a house in Yorkshire.
Kennel club phone line has been engaged all day so havent spoken to them but I am pretty sure he is what he is the breed he is supposed to be, I am familiar with the breed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 13:21

On the way to visit the first time I warned the DC that if I had any doubts at all about the set up we wouldn't be reserving the puppy!!!
What a muppet

OP posts:
SecretNutellaFix · 04/01/2016 13:28

Was the breeders address given as Carmarthenshire by any chance?

If so there is a high chance your little fella is from a puppy farm. You are doing everything you can to ensure the health and wellbeing of your pup, even though it is distressing to feel you have been duped. I hope your darling is settling in well though?

Lonecatwithkitten · 04/01/2016 13:31

If the puppy was born in Wales and the sold to you inYorkshire the retailer needs a pet shop licence. So contact trading standards and they will investigate ( they issue pet shop licences).

toboldlygo · 04/01/2016 13:56

I'm sorry you're in this situation, having tried your best to do the right thing. :(

It may be helpful to look up pup's registered name on www.mykc.org.uk/ if you still can't get through on the phone, it should clarify the DOB issue and you can look up his pedigree, parent's health tests etc. which may be of help in ascertaining where he's come from. Certain kennel names will ring alarm bells, as will high volume breeding (look up siblings, how many litters dad has produced etc.)

tabulahrasa · 04/01/2016 15:38

"Saying that, no reputable breeder would breed puppies to coincide with Christmas."

No decent breeder would sell puppies at Christmas, they'd hang on to them until after, but they can't really control when their bitch goes into season.

I mean it does add in suspicion in these circumstances, but if you're only breeding 2 or 3 times from a bitch ever and skipping a year between litters (which is what you should do) then you'd not wait till the next season even if the timing was going to coincide with Christmas...especially as some bitches only go into season once a year and you could end up with the same issue the next time anyway.

shihtzumamma · 04/01/2016 16:25

Yes. Obviously mother used for breeding pet shop brought your pup. Its common practice for puppy farms. Get her investigated.

BooAvenue · 04/01/2016 16:30

I second whether it was in Carmarthenshire?

Sounds like you may have bought from a puppy farmer. What breed is the dog, that will have an impact?

Original poster
Hoppinggreen · 04/01/2016 17:09

Ok, . Just got back from vet.
Pup is generally healthy but slightly underweight so we are taking action to remedy with with the vets help. She said he was a lovely lively boy and she couldn't immediately see any issues.
He is a Golden Retriever and is from dyfedd - don't know South Wales well so no idea if that's Carmarthenshire I'm afraid.
Date on vac certificate matches what we were told rather than the date on his KC papers so going off his KC papers he was vaccinated too early so they may not be effective. Also, we can't guarantee that the Vax card is for our puppy so we are starting from scratch with him.
Thank you to someone who has suggested looking on KC website, I will do that as their phone has been engaged all day.
The vet said that it could well be a front for a puppy farm but as for who we report the breeder to and what for she's not sure. The breeder has sold us a puppy as agreed and apart from the dob issue we can't prove she has lied at all about anything. She didn't say the puppy had been born there not in Wales
We will not be breeding from him, that Was never the plan, I am more interested in his health and wellbeing now which fingers crossed seems to be good.I am concerned about the supposed other 12 puppies though as IF they existed and were sold they left their mother far too early and may not be vaccinated.
He is back to the vet in 2 weeks so we will review his weight gain then.

OP posts:
shihtzumamma · 04/01/2016 20:16

If you are on FB you can go on a page called puppy farm campaigns you can ask around and they will give you some info on who to report it to if you wish. Your pup sounds like one of the lucky ones you should hear the stories on there 😢

TrionicLettuce · 04/01/2016 20:55

Have a look here Hopping, lots of options for reporting potential puppy farms/dodgy breeders.