Academic mum, self employed dad, DS (14) stuck in the middle

[SecretsAndLies77]

Ok, so, maybe my title oversimplifies it a bit, so I'll try to explain. Please forgive the length.

Split up with x-DH almost 10 years ago. Have DD(16) who's super academic, and DS(14) who's equally bright but has completely different interests. He's doing absolutely fine in school for the moment - not the top, but a comfortably upper middle. Well behaved, loving, good boy, and very athletic which is relevant.

The problem is the future. x-DH works for himself and has become - if I'm being honest, through a huge stroke of luck - very successful (too long to explain what I mean by this, but he's not the role model he thinks he is, as he's not honest about his 'success story', which I know fully and our DC don't). Over the last year I've learnt that he is constantly telling both DC that, basically, people with jobs are stupid. And all sorts of American business-self-help inspired stuff which isn't always wrong, but he totally lacks nuance and context, and also sometimes is just blatantly disrespectful to anyone who's chosen a different track in life. My DC, particularly DS, are too young to apply any kind of critical thinking to what he tells them - they take it at face value and it's starting to cause me huge concern.

I'm a professional with a very high level of education and, while I earn about a fifth of what x-DH earns, my work is fulfilling, well respected and I contribute to society in various ways - in other words, there is a purpose to what I do beyond just the ££. I'm only saying this to back up my claim that people with jobs are not all just idiots who don't know what's good for them.....

DD doesn't care about what her dad says and isn't interested to work for herself. She'll go to uni and have a career of some kind.

DS, however, isn't keen on school at all, and keeps telling me that the second he's not obliged to go to school by law, he's going to leave and pursue his [insert here fun but expensive and dangerous extreme-sport type hobby] full time, so he can become a professional. Has stated clearly he'd rather die than work in an office environment and will never have a boss, because dad says that's a very bad idea.

I am worried that my son will leave school after GCSEs. This is absolutely not a dig at anyone who has that level of education, I'm not coming from a place of snobbery. It's just that, with about 50% of young people now having degrees, do you really want to sit in the bottom half of the population, education wise? In an ultra competitive job market (I mean general jobs, not his hobby)? When I've tried to say things like 'education keeps your options open' or 'don't put all your eggs into one basket (the hobby)' my DS gets very emotional and says that I don't believe in him (that he can make it in the ultra competitive sport).

I always said I'd never tell my kids what to do and would support them in whatever their ambition is. Is this now an example of exactly that situation, which I just can't recognise? Or is this something else, as what he's looking to do is incredibly hard to achieve and also seriously dangerous (an injury could take you out of the sport for good).

Even just the concept of working for yourself - yes, that's great, but surely you need some good knowledge and education under your belt to make a success of it? The most successful enterpreneurs are often very educated. The person who succeeds with zero GCSE is an exception, surely, and people with no qualifications typically end up with less choice over jobs open to them.

Am I wrong about all this? I'm struggling to separate reality from ideology/belief systems.

Do I just sit tight and hope this is a phase at 14 which will change by 18? Or do I keep trying to discuss it with him? Thank you in advance for your comments.

A lot of careers advice is “ you’ve got to see it to be it..” there are many many career paths- and in an ai age, practical skills will be more in demand. Can you explore options at local colleges etc? Explore and research in demand skills?
Have a look at the falling numbers of grad schemes and figures for students not using their degrees in work….
could he become an instructor in his sport? Lots of non uni options….

Very irritating that your DH isn’t encouraging the schoolwork, but there are other paths, some of which do lead to more money.

I would switch this about and be glad that your kids have both types of parent, so are having their eyes opened to both types of option, and will be able to follow the path that best suits them.

I wouldn’t have known the word entrepreneur when I left school, having a parent who opens your eyes to this way of thinking could be very handy.

Time to explore what your ex says to them, add context and get them to use their critical thinking. This is why age appropriate truth is so important.

thank you both!

I don't have teenagers yet, so sorry if I'm off base but these are my two cents.
Your son is 14, ie absolutely prime teenage rebellion against 'normal' life expectations stage. I don't think what he's saying now necessarily will reflect how he'll feel in a few years.
Re his sport - if he doesn't give it a go and try to make it big, will he always regret it? I hear what you're saying about it being highly unlikely to work out, but maybe giving a go now when he can is better than always wondering 'what if...'. A Levels and a degree he can do at a later date, but maybe the sport chance has an expiry date.
I would also start taking a lot about your own job and personal path to them (dropping it into conversation whenever possible) - about how feeling fulfilled by your society role makes you happy, about all the amazing times you had at uni, about the opportunities that education has given you, about why working in a team and a structure is really great. Balance out the message a bit!

Does your exH not have A Levels and degree? If your son is holding him up as an entrepreneur role model, at least make sure he's realistic about what it took to get there.

Can you be seen to be encouraging? But try to still push some education. So for example start talking about what would help him. Would a media, public relations type a level help him market himself - that’s very important for athletes these days for sponsorship. Would a business a level help him run his own business for example. Talk about making a plan for how he’s going to succeed at his dream, in the same way you’d make a plan if he were going to uni - how will he pay for things (job/student finance etc) where he’s going to live, what he’s going to do, how long it’s going to take and the steps to get there. Not in a gotcha told you this was a stupid idea way, but just start laying some foundations. He’s young so you don’t need to go into detail now, but just keep comparing it to going to uni, like this is his plan so you’re taking it seriously how it’s going to look.
he might realise it’s not going to work, or maybe you’ll equip him to have a better chance of success if he’s going to do it anyway.
tbh I’d also, not in a rude way, talk about the lots of luck that goes into anyone being successful, for example your dad had loads of help with x y z. He’s worked very hard as well, but it’s not all in our own hands…type thing

What is the truth about their dad's success and why don't the kids know about it?

It's likely that ds is simply using dad's advice/success as an excuse for day dreaming about what he would really like to do. Ie not to be in school.

By giving him some honesty you can add context to ex's success. E.g. does ex have a degree or qualifications or experience that helped him get to where he is?

Then cooperate with ds to fulfil his dreams in a realistic way. Could he do sports science or similar to support his interest? An apprenticeship which will get him networking in the field?

More and more people are struggling with the conventional education, there are lots of alternative paths. If you can't make mistakes at 16/18/21 when can you?

I work in a university, teaching, research.
My son left school with only GCSEs and by age 25 (last year) was making much more money than me.
Try to be open-minded?
They make decisions beyond your control. I know it's painful, lol.

Why won't OP doesn't tell her son the "full truth" about xH's wealth origins, which seems to inform OP's perspective but she doesn't want to inform her son's perspective.

Life is long. Pursuing a young person’s extreme sport in their teens and twenties doesn’t mean they can’t pivot, complete their education, or do an apprenticeship and have a different career (or several) later.

Plenty of young adults who have done everything ‘right’ and on schedule with school and uni are still in hospitality and delivery jobs while trying to get a career break.

In your position I’d be encouraging, say “excellent you want to be a snowboarder/formula one race car driver etc what is your detailed plan to achieve that? “

How will you support yourself while working your way up? What is you back up plan if you don’t make it, get injured etc?

Dont dismiss it out of hand, take it seriously and ask for details (in a positive way, not all doom and gloom) Do some research into the sport/industry, find out how others successful people have achieved it.

Just because a thing is hard and competitive doesnt mean he shouldn’t try but he needs a plan.

You might be able to get him to compromise and see that staying on for at least A levels gives him a back up.

Regarding academics there isn’t only one chance to sit A levels or do a degree, plenty of people go back in their 20s or 30s having done other things.

By the way, entrepreneurship and business are also important very important to society, even if they do make money.

They create jobs, provide services, produce goods, don’t let intellectual snobbery blind you to seeing that there is no one single “right” way to live your life (even if your ex husband is an arse)

I’d be trying to give DS some context around XH’s success. Can you give at least a potted version of the “luck” side? And say there’s zero downside to getting a good education now regardless. He has to be at school so may as well get some info. It’ll be useful in business, a good fall back, helps to train the brain etc.

Id also spend time listening to Ds and supporting him in any way you can (in an agreement that he’ll work hard at school as well) so that XH isn’t the one giving all the support while you’re constantly saying the opposite.

I’d tell him his dad’s actually path to success, especially if it involved nepotism or an inheritance etc to start him off which your DS isn’t likely to have.

I agree with this.
You can reiterate you want your son to chase his dreams first.
And then go 'but lets have a chat about the different opinions here, why do you think your dad feels that way?'
Remember to ask him why he thinks you think your way too and letting his opinion sit - by that i mean, engaging with it in a 'yeah i think you've got a point there' etc and making him feel heard, thats your main goal for your initial response here, even if his answer is factually incorrect about you, dont jump to defending yourself first, critical thinking is really assisted by confidence and by showing him you are genuinely interested in what he thinks and arent trying to get your point across, it will instill a bit more confidence in him to question things. You can still gently correct any incorrect assumptions later in the conversation, but make a point of expressing that you are genuinely considering and listening to his opinion first.
Things like 'I think that its possible your dad thinks working for yourself is the right way because thats how he's become successful. What do you think?'
I think arming yourself with lots of examples of people around you, or people he looks up to, famous people etc, who have become successful while working for someone else, could be really useful here.

Well he can always give it a go and if it doesn’t work out do university when he’s older. Nobody is stuck doing what they choose at 18.

Almost all my kids friends had dreams like this when they were 14-16. They were going to be rappers, design trainers and have their own shoe brand, travel influencers etc. It will most likely pass as it did for all of them and now in their early 20s they are all either working regular jobs or studying. 14 is the perfect age to have fun but slightly unrealistic dreams. In time they will want money and they will realise the way to get that is to work hard and that very few make money the way your ex has.

I'd chill out a bit tbh. I know very few people who have done what they thought they would at 14. We all had unrealistic ideas of how the world worked...because we were 14, but learnt soon enough.

Maybe he does take a year out after GCSEs to pursue a life as a professional surfer or whatever the hobby is...he can always go back to education later. Just keep having conversations with him, make sure he knows all of his options and above all else make sure he knows that he can come back from any 'mistake' that he makes. You don't need to decide your whole life path at 14!

I see no reason not to explain to your son how your ex acquired his wealth and comfortable life. Tell them the strokes of luck and what would have happened without them. Don't make a big deal of it - just say.

It is important to encourage him in his particular sport - you can feel that it will not lead to fame and success but do not need to say so. and it will no9t harm him to keep going with it. The reality will creep its way in as it does for all of us as we mature.

We have a set route in education that need not be slavishly followed. Education is lifelong and he can come at it from a different direction if he wants.

He needs to know that you have faith in him and respect his decisions whilst also injecting a hint of realism (to which teenagers are notoriously deaf!). Whatever he decides he will need to know you are on his team.

I would also look at successful sports people that are now successful in what they’ve done since versus the ones that ended up bankrupt- it’s mainly football players I can think of.

I would also ask him what is the difference between a coach and/or sponsor versus a boss (erm not much in many ways). How is be going to fund this sport until he gets sponsorship - look how many years and what success it took people to be able to give up work.

What’s his back up plan if he gets injured or when he retires.

It sounds like encouraging him to do an apprenticeship rather than A-levels could be the way to go. University can come much later if he ever wants/needs to go.

I'd be less worried about leaving school after GCSEs and more worried about whether the alternative path was viable.
"I want to leave at the end of Year 11 and apply for this type of apprenticeship. I researched these options ...." Great
"he's going to leave and pursue his [insert here fun but expensive and dangerous extreme-sport type hobby] full time" Err how are you planning to fund that in the short and medium term? Not great
It sounds like your DS has had a very priviledged upbringing and isnt understanding thst hobbies arent self funding and the likelihood of making money from one is minimal. We'd all like to do what we want & be paid for it, but the reality is very few can.
Rather than advocating uni specifically, I would be engaging in discussions about his plans and explaining he needs to be earning or in full time education. If this is a hobby not a job i would be blunt about it and explain I wouldnt be funding it unless he was engaged in school or college or an apprenticeship/job. If Dad is going to feed a fantasy that he can make money from the hobby (when in all likelihood he cant) it is tricky. I think you have to keep calm and ask probing questions. Talk about how business works and the need for specialist skills and unique products and services. Does he think a 16 year old has them? Does he need to build skills and experience through college or working before he launches a business. Take him seriously, but probe and challenge calmly. Self employnent can be great, but will he really be ready at 16? Hopefully, he will mature over the next couple of years. Dismissing non-uni routes is just going to result in him shutting down, but equally discussing realities & practicalities is important.

This...

Support your children in whatever they want to do but point out the issues as you see them anyway. Let them choose their direction and just help. This is the only way it can work in the end.

I feel your pain OP. If I encouraged my DDs to strive academically my dickhead exH would encourage them to join Only Fans! If I encouraged my DDs to become Love Island influencers he would insist that they have to go to university 🙄

Ultimately, they’re going to make their own choices - DD1 has always insisted that she WILL be the first female president of the USA 🤦🏼‍♀️ so when you say what your son wants to do is incredibly hard to achieve and very dangerous - I’m with you 😕 She has just been appointed ambassador for her college. She is chomping at the bit to join the OECD Young Associates Scheme. She’s a member of a local political party and madly motivated … she cannot wait to turn 18 this month and be eligible to vote in the US & UK elections…🙄

DD2 wants to be a game designer. The idea of her spending her life lying in bed, staring at a screen, eating ridiculous amounts of chocolate with complete vitamin D deficiency while she ‘codes’ leaves me aghast … but she won two national game design competitions before she was fourteen 🤷🏼‍♀️

We cannot change who they are … we can only try to model good behaviour surrounding choices. And in my case figure out where the fuck I went wrong 😂

He is only 14, and AI is changing the job landscape rapidly. I don't see why you need to make an issue of this now, in the next few years he'll be influenced by all sorts and hopefully develop his critical thinking skills.