At end of tether with dd (13)

[Evabeaversprotege]

She will be 13 in a few weeks time and her attitude is awful.

I know she's a ball of hormones & I have to factor that in, but her whole demeanour towards me just scares me.

When she chooses to be lovely, she can be. But most of the time she fires sarcastic comment after another at me. In fact I have just came to bed as I can't stand being in the same room as her right now.

There isn't one incident that has pushed me to post - I just can't deal with her demands anymore. I'll list some examples below.

If the four of us (ds, dd, DH & I) are all in a room, she spends time correcting us, our pronunciation of words, if what we've said was right or wrong, she screams if ds farts (he's 10!) or if DH kisses me on the cheek. She actually screeches, balls her fists up and demands we stop (we generally do as she has a screaming shit fit that makes DS cry)

Yesterday he was eating rice for lunch, the noise of his fork scraping the plate caused a full on tantrum from her, resulting in DS using a picnic fork to finish his lunch!!!!

She sat & tsked & sighed the whole time we were talking earlier then said God this family is so stupid. (Dh is a foreman at work, I have a degree & hold down a good job, we're not stupid).

I guess I'm wondering if this is 'normal' for her to scream at noises she doesn't like, it's almost as if the whole family are tiptoeing around her all the time.

I heard DH saying to her after I left the room "can you work on your attitude, it's not pleasant" and she screeched "omg daddy, there's nothing wrong with my attitude, you are all horrible to me!!"

I believe she thinks she so much better than all of us. Even her cousins who used to be friendly with her haven't bothered much with her recently.

But she's a teenager, which means she knows everything and you know nothing, don't you realise that?

I'm not sure that I've got any useful advice, but we've always laughed at that sort of behaviour in this house, it seems to burst their superiority bubble a bit. Or ignore I guess. Just don't feed it by taking it seriously, or escalate it by getting angry, or excuse it by suggesting it's normal teenage behaviour (because it really doesn't have to be and you don't want to give tacit approval).

My dc are not teenagers yet so I may be talking rubbish but if my dd (11yrs) was screeching like that she would be told to leave the room until she had calmed down. I would not NOT kiss my dh because she screamed and as 10yr old boys farting resulting in a screaming fit - well I'm sure he feels mission accomplished! I also wouldn't have let DS switch to a picnic fork because dd doesn't like the noise. You can guarantee if one of her friends was round she wouldn't be having a screaming fit if their fork scraped the plate.
I personally would without any fuss ask her to leave the room when she screams (and ignore any screaming carrying on outside the room) - don't forget she is modelling the way a teenager behaves to your DS, soon you'll have two of them!
She is trying to control you all with her screaming (and it's working, you're changing your behaviour as a result) and I would nip it in the bud now.

HTH

I absolutely would not tolerate this nonsense from her. Out of the room, firm no. Sanctions for screeching - no TV time, Internet off. Nip it in the bud now. She's ruling the roost and it won't be pleasant long term.

I have a 15 and 14 year old and have not experienced this. I'm not sure it is normal to be quite so sensitive, or so unpleasant that everyone is walking on egg shells around her, and it's obviously becoming a significant issue.

I'd wonder perhaps if there might be anything going on in her life maybe? Issues at school or with friends possibly? On the other hand it could be that by not dealing with her tantrums in the same way you would a toddler (ie not giving in to her demands) that you are giving her too much power in the household. Or just a temporary blip that she just needs to grow out of.

Is it a very recent and new problem or more of a continuation of a pattern of behaviour that has reemerged?

Have you got my daughter in your house?

I've actually sought out counselling because of the impact dd1s behaviour is having on me and I've no one to share the burden with

Sweetness and light changes to screaming devil within seconds

Sanctions don't work as they just cause more screaming, laughing creates more screaming, talking creates more screaming and or being told 'there's nothing wrong with me, you're the one with an attitude problem!'

I find it really difficult because she behaves perfectly at school plus no one talks about the problems they have with their young teens

Also if you post on here you are often met with
'Take away phone/laptop'
'They wouldn't get away with it in this house'

Yeah well I said that until it started happening in this house!

If op's dd is like mine, calmly telling her to leave the room would result in her refusing to do it

And then when they are adult size what do you do then? You can't pick them up and remove them like you would a toddler

18yr and OP have you ever recorded them when they are screaming? When they are calm would it have an impact to discuss the screaming and show them the footage of them behaving like a toddler (and if you were feeling really evil, cut it with footage of a toddler tantrumming ). No idea if it would work, just a thought.

I would leave the room then I think and get everyone else, in silence to do the same. Though of course if that means she is left with the tv and you are all hanging about in the kitchen then that backfires unless you have somewhere else to go!

Hattie -you leaving the room means they win

When they are kicking off because they can't 'cope' with the sound of people eating or breathing, being left is exactly what they want

I understand your theory about filming but it's impossible to predict calm, it may only last seconds!

She is in a development state where she is becoming an adult, moving away from being a child but still with child needs. Part of the brain development making them become independant causes our kids to start to hate , resent or be imbarrassed by their parents. All teens go through this. Boys become quite, no cuddles, withdrawn and sullen. Girls opinionated, vocal and dramatic. They all do it but some do it with bells on. You have it with bells on! The sad thing is she will know what she is doing but just can't stop it. She will have overwhelming feelings of hate and feel quite down or stressed.
I can tell you that despite what will be said sanctions / punishments won't work. She will fight them and the household atmosphere will continue to deteriate.
The problem is she is bullying your family and you need to control it.
Normal teen stuff is a pain in the backside but when you have extremes of it it is horrendous.
Please read a book. I read. Get out my life but first take me and Alex into town. It really explains about their brain development , why they act like they do and what to do about it. It helped so much. I found that just applying strategies wasn't enough, I needed to really understand what was going on. Our household changed I wish I read it years ago. There are loads of other good books.
Please read one it's better than any advice on here.
If she continues to struggle with her emotions some teens benefit from outside help such as seeing the school councillor. This is very common.
It takes years to get through this stage but it does end - I promise.

My dd is 12 & whilst not quite as bad as you describe we have had our moments. A teenage toddlers added to nothing is fair. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know their brains are changing & I know that this normal separation & starting to establish herself. Her behaviour to me is much worse than towards dh & she is also much closer to me. What seems to be working is picking my moments to talk about certain behaviours & ignore the rest. She had a meltdown about helping with the dishwasher. I let it rile me at the time & probably didn't handle it well. We talked about it later when she was calm & she said oh yes I was terrible- sorry! So it then went to what can we do to stop it from getting to that .....that kind of conversation.... try & avoid blame. ( read non-violent communication). I'm not perfect so I don't keep calm all the time & I'm trying!
I personally haven't used turn of WiFi or remove phone. I think it might make her resent you & stop talking just at the time when you need her too.

Yep I would be sending her to her room and removing tv/Internet each time she does this.
Discuss it with her first and dh and explain how her behaviour is not appropriate and that x y and z will happen each time she kicks off.
Then you aren't trying to reason with her while she is upset, you've already had the conversation and you follow through by removing her from the room.

Aren't they just attention seeking though? If there's no-one to tantrum at, what's the point. The things that they are choosing to get worked up about (eg someone eating) occurs all the time outside the home and you can guarantee they aren't tantruming there so surely they are just trying to pick a fight? If you just picked up your meal, walked off into the other room, stuck the tv and carried on, leaving her on her own frothing by herself has she definitely won? Or say 'I can't put up with this screaming while I am trying to eat' as you leave so it's your decision to leave?
I do see your point, it won't work in some situations. BTW I temper all my 'advice' with not having been there, sounds awful!

my post is to 18yr - sorry OP!)

I have a 13-year-old dd and have not experienced anything like this. She has the occasional outburst, but my reaction is to take her to one side and talk other calmly. I disagree with those who say you can treat teenage tantrums like toddler tantrums. It's not the same thing. A teenage knows what good behaviour is (or should do) and you ought to be able to reason with her once she has calmed down. I take my dd to one side or talk to her later once she's calmed down and try to find out what the problem is and if there isn't one ask her what prompted her to behave like that. Sometimes she doesn't know, but I think the act of me being reasonable helps her to think about her behaviour rather than just ratcheting up her feeling of injustice if that makes sense. I'm no expert and all kids are different so might not work for you, but thought I'd post anyway.

Ds3 isn't like this yet but I had a torrid time with ds1 , those people saying send them to their room , my ds3 is 5'6' , I am 5'4 , if he refuses he is far too big for me to force and I know from ds1 that it will turn into physical fight if I try, most unedifying , it's just not realistic

goshhh you and I have the same technique - you just explained it much better.

Evabeaver, everyone else has addressed the problems with the behaviour already, so I won't comment on that. But I do wonder if your DD's issue with noises such as a fork scraping on a plate is something she can't help. I have massive problems with certain noises, to the extent where it's almost a phobia, and it makes life really difficult. As a child, I couldn't bear the sound of my father breathing - so much so that I spent much of my childhood avoiding him. It was a huge relief to find out a few years ago that this is now a recognised condition and has a name, misophonia - if you Google it there will be lots of links.
Of course, this might not be relevant to your DD at all - but it's worth checking out.

Impossible to say what will work with your daughter but you must not allow her outbursts to change what you do. We made the mistake of challenging them for a while and it just opened the flood gates to all sorts or hysteria - whatever came into her head basically. Not fun.

Options?

Ignore.
Empathise over enthusiastically (this worked in our house eg. OMG you're right, tomorrow I wil go to the shops and look for some rubber cutlery or maybe some with airbags)
Question - how would you like us to do/stop whatever ?

But talk to her about it afterwards, explain that an alternative/more successful approach might be......

I asked dd why we were getting on better.....keeping talking apparently & making time for her on her own without ds who is 8 (and who is easy as pie to spend time with as he isn't a teenager). When we have time together I find her v amusing & is good company. Also I find out all the pressure she is under from her peers. It does make it sound like it is idyllic when it isn't & she drove me mad today when she was winding ds up.

Thank you so much for all the replies - I've only just saw all these replies!!

So many ideas and great advice.

Sorry on phone & can't name check but we have tried walking out when she starts, asking her to leave etc with limited success.

I do believe she has problems with noises, she also hates burping/breaking wind herself & anything (like a loud laugh) makes her anxious.

We do spend time just her & I. She is also very close to her dad. We don't have a long list of rules, but she has boundaries which I believe she is pushing!

She has friends over often & as we live rurally she's never out anywhere we don't know.

I'm intereted in the "oversensitivity" to noises idea from cinnamon, kind of fingernails on the blackboard sort of thing? I kind of understand but my feeling is it might be because of or made worse by how she's feeling about herself and her family. I'm saying this because I remember when I was that sort of age, my family really used to make my skin crawl; I can remember it so clearly and can see when I have the same effect on my dd now. I did not react the way your daughter did (I did turn in on myslef a lot, which might not have been healthy either!) but perhaps there is a way you can accept the feelings she has, but insist she expresses them more calmly. When I remember I still say "I'll listen when you say it more calmly". Even if she repeates herself sarcastically, it better than screaming.

It sounds like she needs to get more relaxed, but you'd need to pick your moment to suggest meditation etc. I think there might be some good teen apps for this though? makes note to find one for own dd

I think there is a toddler element in teenagers - they find themselves caught up in the momentum of their emotions. I have caught out (I know, bit mean, but revealing) my daughter and she has admitted that she kind of enjoys being angry sometimes. Its a good way of avoiding taking responsibility for yourself, if you can whip up a righteous frenzy about someone else. And teenagers are quite scared of being reponsible for themselves and responsible for thier own misdemeanours.
Actually, its a behaviour I recognise in my young adult self too, looking back.

I hope you find a way through, and she finds a way to feel heard wihtout screaming!

I love that the first answer is always send them to their room.

How do you do that when they are as big as you and refuse to go?

And remove phones etc - even the mention of that causes the biggest tantrum ever. And then what do you do when they need it as was intended - as a means of communication when you're at work and they're at school?

I could start a whole thread on devices. Is it really normal to act as if you've been told you're about to lose a limb when the phone goes missing?

I don't recall sending either of my children to their rooms for many years. They tend to stomp off there when they are mad in any case - we're more likely to summon them back! dh being 6'5 and big with it might be why it's not been an issue mind.

My teens don't have phones, so it's not an issue for us. Most of their friends do but neither of them have been that interested, and when given a choice of big present they've always opted for something else. They have WiFi at school so no issue with keeping in touch should we need to (can't say that's been a frequent thing though) and we sometimes lend dd one of our phones if we really want to keep track of her (like when she goes to have one of her incredibly long hair cut/dye appointments).