At end of tether with dd (13)

[Evabeaversprotege]

She will be 13 in a few weeks time and her attitude is awful.

I know she's a ball of hormones & I have to factor that in, but her whole demeanour towards me just scares me.

When she chooses to be lovely, she can be. But most of the time she fires sarcastic comment after another at me. In fact I have just came to bed as I can't stand being in the same room as her right now.

There isn't one incident that has pushed me to post - I just can't deal with her demands anymore. I'll list some examples below.

If the four of us (ds, dd, DH & I) are all in a room, she spends time correcting us, our pronunciation of words, if what we've said was right or wrong, she screams if ds farts (he's 10!) or if DH kisses me on the cheek. She actually screeches, balls her fists up and demands we stop (we generally do as she has a screaming shit fit that makes DS cry)

Yesterday he was eating rice for lunch, the noise of his fork scraping the plate caused a full on tantrum from her, resulting in DS using a picnic fork to finish his lunch!!!!

She sat & tsked & sighed the whole time we were talking earlier then said God this family is so stupid. (Dh is a foreman at work, I have a degree & hold down a good job, we're not stupid).

I guess I'm wondering if this is 'normal' for her to scream at noises she doesn't like, it's almost as if the whole family are tiptoeing around her all the time.

I heard DH saying to her after I left the room "can you work on your attitude, it's not pleasant" and she screeched "omg daddy, there's nothing wrong with my attitude, you are all horrible to me!!"

I believe she thinks she so much better than all of us. Even her cousins who used to be friendly with her haven't bothered much with her recently.

I haven't read every reply so apologies if I amjust repeating stuff.

My dd is about to turn 17 and my ds about to turn 12. I haven't experienced this behaviour from either of them but if I did I would not tolerate it. (I have experienced other types of unacceptable behaviour ) Her behaviour seems to be about control. I would not let her have control. If she starts to scream or order other members of the family about she needs to leave the room. immediately.

If that doesn't address it there needs to be further consequences like losing privileges like screen time, electronics confiscated, treats cancelled. conversation would go something like this:

me: Hi Dh. how was your day? kiss on cheek.

dd: OMG! YOU ARE SO STUPID. STOP KISSING HIM NOW!

Me: No dd. I will not and if you do not stop shouting and being rude to me you must leave the room.

DD: I WILL NOT. YOU STOP. BLAH...BLAH...BLAH.

Me: It's your choice. You leave the room now or I will begin confiscating privileges.

You follow through and stop your dd controlling your family.

To introduce these changes I would explain to her when she is calm what is going to happen. I would fully expect her to kick off at that point.

I have occasionally had similar. The last time I removed the entire family from the room, turned the light off and left her to tantrum alone in the dark.

Mn flamed me for being childish

However I did it because it removed her from being the centre of attention and controlling the situation. We merely went on our way and continued what we were doing. She felt a bit daft when she realised and it didn't happen again.

When she did calm down and come through we didn't mention the tantrum just let her join in and then the next day I spoke to her about it

I also find a conversation about how if they want more trust they need to earn it helps

They're all different though...

I would add that yes definitely talk afterwards. I do this with my dd and did that at early teens too. The talk would be about how they were feeling, was anything getting to them, could I help? It is important to acknowledge how upset she is but not to let her feelings run the house. your ds is entitled not to be bullied by her like this. If someone in school screamed at your ds so he had to eat his food with picnic cuttlery you would think he was being bullied.

For the person who asked what if they need the phone for security reasons for school etc. Well we just let my dd have it for those times and not others. so she had to hand it up when she came in from school.

As for the talk about well they are bigger than me I can't make them move. I do appreciate that one too. I used to stand at the door of the room and repeat myself endlessly "you need to leave the room". Eventually she thumped out.

These are what worked for us and I am only voicing my experiences and def not claiming to be an expert!

Love the turning off the tv and leaving her in the dark one! Very hard to tantrum in the dark with no audience. (note to self: if I try this one with ds in the coming years do remember to take the tv remote....)

Fellow misophonia sufferer here! Could you eat with music on? (Maybe agree a "mealtime" playlist in advance to avoid the inevitable clash in music taste: "I am doing this for you to make mealtimes bearable for you, but it has to be bearable for me too" kind of thing)

My misophonia became unbearable as a teenager and is still worst with the personal noises of my nearest and dearest. My dad eating cornflakes? Aaaaaargh! My son's hiccups - ghastly (poor kid can cure hiccups in 20 seconds - he gets them a lot).

It is really scary because you go instantly from Quite Nice and Bubbly to Utterly Evil and Capable of Real Violence at the sound of the scrape of a fork.

Anyway, I massively digress. Sounds like lots of good advice even if it is misophonia!

Thanks everyone.

Lots of understanding & advice here which is appreciated.

We were out last night for a meal & I looked across at Dd - the place was busy and people were talking, babies crying hell on Earth and dd had sank down in her seat with her hands over her ears.

I explained to her that it was a restaurant, she couldn't behave how she does at home. She begged to go and wait in the car :(

I'm wondering whether to take her to the doctor? What do you think? Her most common comment is "that stressed me out so much"

She imagines the worst scenario ever & multiplies it in her head.

DH id very laid back, I would get social anxiety, but strangely Dd seems fine normally in social situations.

She isn't that bad, you know. Hurtful comments are par for the course; a raised eyebrow works wonders. We tended to err on the side of ignoring rather than sanctions, but that was because DW's childhood was dramatic/passive agressive, and mine was hyperviolent.

The misophonia seems to be real, so noise-cancelling headphones might be an idea.

Take her to your GP.
Sounds like she has a Misphonia problem.

Better to have a diagnosis, acceptance and her own coping strategies in place than allowing her to make your son's life hell. Egg shells... Picnic fork?... Not on!

She needs a diagnosis and head phones.

I agree, from that last post I think that some intervention is required, either there is a physical issue or a psychological one (or both), and either way she needs help with strategies and specialist support.

I would add in possibly Sensory Processing Disorder.

What will a diagnosis mean for dd?

Also, I'm slightly wary of going to GP & saying "I think dd has misphonia" incase he doesn't listen. We live in rural Ireland & I very rarely need to see health professionals about anything.

To whoever said she wouldn't do it in ftom of her friends - she does. Her friend stayed over last Monday night & at Tuesday's dinner dd sat with hands over ears & face screwed up when cutlery was on plates.

I also worry that by noticing her reaction & acknowledging it, she does it more (If that makes sense?)

My 13 yr old daughter is the same. She has just ruined a family weekend away with constant complaining, sniping at all of us abd horrible grumpiness.
I'm feeling pretty depressed by it as it's starting to impact on me living my life/having fun and being happy. I work very hard so if my down time is ruined I feel like I have no life at all. No answers.

You have my sympathy framey.

Do you have any other children?

It's easy to focus on the 'unruly' one and forget to praise the rest.

My DS is a good wee soul, he's a total peace keeper & hates dd's tantrums.

He often begs me not to tell her off for stuff as he knows it'll turn into a 'battle' of wills.

I'm just 4ft 10, dd is easily over 5ft & is a few lb heavier than me - I find her intimidating at times.

She sdoes sound like she is over sensitive to noise - but with a teen you just don't know how much is drama and how much is real - still I would get her checked out.
I have a 13 yo and at the moment she isn't too bad -but we had full blown tantrums just before she started her first period - so about 12.5 yo. I mean toddler style - she actually threw herself to the floor once . Talking to her didn't help - I don't think she was really in control.
I dealt with it like toddler tantrums...
But it has got easier (but still noticeably gets worse a week before her period) . I take her phone off her for playing up - she would try and sneak it back - so I bought a combination cash box - it gets locked in there and I left her to try and crack the code but she didn't manage! (And I could change it again if she had) If she refuses to give me her phone I increase the number of days she won't have it for - and threatened to change the Wi Fi password and cancel her contract if she doesn't give it to me...and she knows I will...
She has managed to lose her phone for a week ! I don't get emotional - calmly say you have a count to 3 to give it to me before its for 2 days, then repeat for 3 days etc. When she has lost it for more than a day or so I take the sim out and put it in her old phone...she hates that!!!
Sarky comments get similar answers back, laughed at or I compliment her on the quick wittiness of them ...takes the wind out of her sails...

Our just turned 13 DD is also horrified by displays of affection between DH and me. Our reaction, childish though it is, is to do ostentatious public displays of affection, preferably in front of her friends. The more obnoxious she has been, the more elaborate the display. It can range from kissing her in public to extravagant hugs or, if she's been really awful to DH and I publicly kissing each other.

She's now learnt not to be so loud in her objections. If she kicks off I just tell her we'll have to continue our kissing at the bus stop in the morning instead.

Slug

She has just came into me & informed me she has taken her first period.

This might explain some of the moodiness and may also explain the tugging in my tummy all day too.

Am going to call the doctor tomorrow and make an appointment.

I'm in rural Ireland too - think doc might be a lot more supportive than you expect. Perhaps occupational theraphy and a psychologist referral might be an idea? Someone else suggested it but consider sensory processing disorder. A friend had her child diagnosed with this and found occupational therapy a huge help.

Hormones must have been rotten for her lately so hopefully an easier couple of weeks might be ahead for you and her now.

I've never met a fellow misophonia sufferer, specialmagiclady! My sympathies. I can honestly say it ruins my life at times - for example, I get so anxious if we go and stay at a hotel in case I hear noises from another room - music/TV from elsewhere is one of my triggers, besides breathing. My poor DH virtually has to hold his breath at times, and I wear earplugs every single night. Summer is spent in a state of tense anxiety in case anyone has noisy outdoor parties. Writing it down makes it sound ridiculous, but that's the way it is.
Evabeaver, you could take your DD to your GP but I would be surprised if they'd even heard of it, and there is, sadly, no cure as such. It is still being researched and there is a theory that crossed neural pathways are responsible, so that certain sounds end up stimulating the flight or fight response. Some people are made very aggressive by their trigger sounds and just lash out; others, like me, are just desperate to escape from the noise - if I was trapped in a lift with someone breathing noisily, I would be clawing desperately at the doors to escape.
Coping mechanisms include earplugs and headphones (I've wondered about trying white noise, but haven't done it yet - I get anxious at the thought that it might not work), and, as someone suggested, playing background noise of your choice. The only thing that has ever come near to helping was some cognitive behaviour therapy. It didn't 'cure' me but it gave me some insight into what was happening and how I could theoretically cope. The therapist said I should get my hearing checked out, as he thought it was very acute - it's true I can hear things that other people don't. So you could pursue these routes with your DD. Do talk to her about the noise issue - she will know if it's a problem but may well feel too ashamed and idiotic to admit it
If your DD does suffer from this, do try to understand she really can't help it. It is hell living with a misophonia sufferer, because we become unbearable at times. Great article from a sufferer here in the Guardian
On a happier note, I once saved the life of an old lady living next door who had fallen out of bed in freezing temperatures and was too frail to get back in. I was the only person in my shared student house who could hear her faint cries for help. We called the police and they said she would have died if she'd been left any longer. So at least some good came out of it!

Wow - yours is worse than mine! My triggers are sniffing and hiccups. My DS1 gets hiccups Aaaaaaalll the time and is at real risk of harm if he can't stop them. Luckily he s really good at stopping them.

Oh god maybe I need to get some help (again) with this. I have not pursued my dream job (teaching) because people might get hiccups an I might lose it. That sounds pathetic.

For the struggling with rampant teenage PMT parents, have you tried Evenjng Primrose/Vitamin B6(?) or any of the other natural PMT remedies?

UPDATE

Op here with update, thanks for all the advice before.

I took dd to our GP who listened & referred us to paediatrics. We went today & dd has been referred to camh team for coping strategies as she says there are some anxiety & sensory issues.

She was interested in dd's headaches & wants us to try a 30 day exclusion diet, paleo I think she said?

Also, she's testing for celiac & chrons as they run in my family. The doctor was lovely, I felt she really listened to us & hopefully everything combined will help lead to a happier dd.

I read 'How to listen so Teens will talk and how to talk so Teens will Listen'. It is, at times, overwhelmingly and cringingly 'American' but it is SO good. Persevere with it and you will come out feeling stronger and more confident.

Sometimes, in the midst of an argument teens get to an 'impasse' within, where they are can't move forward or back, just stay in the awful confrontational state they are in. This books suggestions gives them space to cope with their feelings, feel listened to, move on and even apologise sometimes! I'm not saying it will be magic straight away, but if it were me, I would feel so rubbish if I were laughed at; punished etc.. Sometimes some kindness is just the magic you need.

That is NOT to say that her behaviour should be tolerated. It shouldn't; it is having an impact on the whole family.

When this happens again, take her aside, away from others (gives her space and the chance to calm down if possible and doesn't belittle her in
front of everyone) Explain that what she is doing is upsetting everyone, If you can, try and explain that you can see she is upset too, about etc..etc.. And then ask her what she thinks she and you could do to improve the situation. If she simply says, DB needs to stop using a fork, you need to say that is not an option, it takes away a right he has, what else? Pausing is good. If she simply won't co-operate then suggest, kindly not punitively that she goes elsewhere to calm down and that you will keep her food warm. If she then can meet you half way with a suggestion (even if it is almost a silly one,) see it as a positive and meet it with a compromise or turn it into a joke (that's different from laughing at their distress/tantrum)
The above is simply an example of how the book works and there are various strategies you can adopt for different senarios.

You could almost see this as an opportunity to teach her how to navigate her distress/irritation/upset/tantrums. You will be playing a key part in her life if you can help her through all this as how you cope with it as parents will probably underpin how she copes throughout her life.

Be strong, read the book, (I also recommend 'Just Get out of my Life but first take me and Alex into Town). They complement each other, one the latter, explains the behaviour and why it happens, the other, the former suggests strategies for coping.

Best of luck! It really sounds like you have all the wherewithal to get through this but just need a helping hand (never believe people who say they have never needed any help in the child-rearing process).

Just read your update. Your Gp sounds lovely and thoughtful. I wouldn't worry too much about the diet (NB is the Paleo diet low carb? If so, you cannot get a coeliac test if she has cut out gluten which, if I am correct she will almost definitely will be doing. It is VITAL the test is done with gluten in the system as it detects antibodies, so go carefully with that, apologies, of course, I am wrong). Also, if it is a bit punishing (which I think low carb is) it may well exacerbate her volatility. Also, remember that teens need plenty of B vitamins found in carbs particularly brown bread, rice, etc..

Sorry, me again, My eldest DD 17 has Asperger's so I really understand about the sensory issues. I think it's great you have had a referral to CAMHS but, I don't know where you are, if in the UK or Wales, you may be in for a long, long wait, think 1year - 18 months, possibly worst case scenario. They are under atrocious pressure with cuts to funding and all the other problems associated with some NHs services, I work in the NHS as well as having been a recipient.
I'm not suggesting your DD has Asperger's but being hypersensitive to noise is one of the many characteristics, so she/you will be questioned closely on what other, possibly completely unrelated issues, as they are tying to bring together the picture.
They may be really helpful too, in suggesting anger management strategies.
Again, best of luck, I've been there in similar, slightly different ways but struggled all the same.

Get her a mulit-vitamin/mineral supplement aimed at women - one with b-vits, chromium, manganese and essential fatty acids. It won't have immediate effect but after a month you should feel reassured that PMT isn't adding to her/your problems.

If she says horrid things just calmly (I know...) say, 'That's not nice' - don't react too much. You want her to get the impression that you're far too sensible to be bothered and find it a bit boring.

Good luck with her specific problems. I'm so glad your doctor has started procedures to help her. I think you're right in wanting to find a balance between helping her with specific disorders and also helping her become a considerate member of society - ultimately.

(The other obvious thing- but something I didn't manage with my DD - is to ensure that she gets regular exercise as that will help her to cope with stress.)

Just seen you are in rural Ireland, not sure how the system works there, may be better than here!