my 6yr old ds been excluded from school

[coultie]

Can anyone advice me on what to do as my son has just got excluded for 4 days for his behaviour that has been going on over the last 3 yrs since nursery but has got worse as he has got older.I will give you a bit of background as to the type of things he does Tearing his work and others swearing hitting children especially girls refusing to work for the teachers being very distruptive in school and he is the same at home. He has been taking melatoin to help him sleep for the last 3 months as he was waking up and wandering around and he goes to see a consultant every 3 months as they think he has adhd and has been getting observations done at school for autism as he just doesnt seem to show any empathy when he does anything wrong and to exclude him isnt going to help him in anyway. He hasnt got a statement as yet until he gets a diagnosis but the school is aware that he has special needs help as i dont know what to do

Hello Cultie, what a nightmare for you both.

He doesn't need a DX for a statement, but of course it does make things easier. I presume he is on SA+?

Did you get a letter stating the cause of the exclusion from the HEad?

I would start with a few phone calls as clearly the school have let things get out of hand- SOS!SEN and IPSEA are the best places I ahve found,and will help enormously.

Hiya and thanks for that yes we got a letter stating the causes of the exclusion and numbers if i wanted to appeal against it from which i havent as yet as i am trying to gather up as much info as i can before doing so

I agree that the school has let it get too far he does get learning support one to one for 7 hrs a weeek which is nothing as he also has a bad speech as in he cannot pronpunce alot of things and last term had a speech therapist that only turned up 4 sessions out of 12 which is no good for someone like him We just feel we are going nowhere

coultie,

This is from IPSEA's website.

Exclusion 'rules'
The Head must write immediately giving length and reason for exclusion.
The Head must inform the Governors only if

(a) an external exam would be missed or

(b) if the total days excluded in the term are more than 5.

The Governors must meet only if

(a) an external exam would be missed or

(b) the total days excluded in the term is over 5 and parents ask for a meeting.

Parents have the right to make 'written representations' which must be considered by governors and/or to attend the meeting.

The Head must inform the LEA only if exclusion means total days excluded in the term are more than 5 or if an external exam would be missed.

If exclusion is more than one day, school must set and mark work for child.

SEN questions

If you believe that your child has been excluded as a result of their special educational needs not being met, you may need to consider:

Asking for your child to be placed on School Action or School Action Plus.
Asking for an urgent review of the IEP.
Complaining to Governors that duties under s317 Education Act 1996 have not been fulfilled (i.e. to use their best endeavours to ensure that children with special needs receive provision to meet their needs).
Requesting statutory assessment.
Asking for a change of school, etc.

I would certainly talk to IPSEA (evenings are best) and have a look at their website:-

www.ipsea.org.uk

There is further exclusion information on there.

I would be requesting a Statutory Assessment now (statement) from the Chief Education Officer at your LEA. You will need to give them six weeks to reply.

Disability discrimination questions
If you believe that the exclusion was unfair, you should consider these issues:

Is my child disabled (as defined by the Disability Discrimination Act)? Download this checklist to find out.
Was the exclusion for a reason related to my child's disability?
Was the exclusion justified, e.g. were there other actions which you think the school could have taken, instead of excluding your child?
Can you think of any reasonable steps which the school could have taken to prevent the situation which led to the exclusion e.g. providing extra support, asking for advice from the LEA, asking the LEA to undertake a statutory assessment?

Thankyou so much for that info which i have found very helpful I will let you know as to how i get on

Coultie - would echo ATM advice. 7 hours a week support is very low. He clearly needs much more - sounds like FT to me. If the school have put in some TA hours then they must think that support is in some way useful. If there are still major problems then surely they should be putting in more help - NOW - not waiting until there is a Statement application.

As it has now got to crisis point the school should be getting urgent advice from the LEA. They should have a plan as to how they are going to teach him when he goes back next week (assuming he stays away for the full 4 days).

Have there been other exclusions, for shorter periods? 4 days seems like a lot for a 6-year old child?

I am a school governor and we had a child a couple of years ago who was going through the ADHD diagnosis and then the statementing process. We had to put FT 1:1 support in because he needed it and because without it there were H&S issues for staff and for the other children.

Hiya no he hasnt been excluded before this is the first time and the school just said it was for 4 days, and yes we agree it is a long time. We are already having problems as he says he isnt going back already so god help us wednesday morning.We have a meeting on thursday with the mats assessment team from which i will get the results and plan for action on thursday,and we also have to see hic consultant on thursday from cahms who is talking about putting my ds on ritalin so we are hoping that it will help,Everyone that i have spoken to regarding my ds is distgusted at the fact that he has problems and getting excluded as they say like us what is it going to achieve as he thinks he is on holiday and loving it as he doesnt know what he has done wrong We are just hoping that we have a outcome and we can look ahead

Presumably the school are saying that they want him back? A 4-day exclusion sounds like a 'cry for help' to the LA - 'look things are so bad here and we can't cope'.

What are school going to put in place when he goes back next week? Do the LA think that that school is the best place for him? Do the school actually think this, whatever they are saying about having him back?

Sorry these are all questions which no doubt you've asked and/or are no use to you on a Saturday morning but it makes me cross to see a 6-year old child in this position ;/

Yes we are cross at the fact that it is our 6 yr old son that it is happening to.The school are wanting him back but as for how long well thats a different story, he will get his diagnosis on friday from the mats team about his possible autism so we have been adviced that when the diagnosis comes as i am sure there will be one to ask the school if they have enough resources and help to deal with him and his behaviour and if they say yeah then they can get on with it and if this happens again i can put the point over to them that we asked if they could cope and they agreed they could but if they say well we dont know blah de blah then we will just look for another school where we can put his behaviour across to them. OH we just dont know what to do for the best to help our little man

Hope you get some useful information on Friday.

Have you been given a date for the reintergration meeting?

You need to know what steps school are taking to ensure that your child has the support needed. They have excuded for specific reasons and now need to be taking steps to ensure that they have strategies in place.

It may be worth putting a call to parent partnership to see if they have anyone available to come to the meeting with you or at least talk about possible questions you could ask.

Sorry you are going through this; I had the same with my ds (asd) earlier this year and I know how hard it is.

Thankyou all for your comments and suggestions and yes it is hard as we just dont know what to do for the best We havent even been told about a reintegration meeting as yet ,and as for the school mentioning about support well atm they arent What they did say was that when ds goes back to school we have to pick him up at dinner time and bring him home as the dinner ladies arent payed enough to put up with his behaviour We are seriously thinking about keeping him off schol till next monday after the diagnosis and after he has had so many days on his medication but would we get into trouble for this

Ask for the lunchtime removal to be put in writing. Tell school that every lunchtime he is sent home will count as a half day exclusion and you want it officially recorded as such and the paperwork daily. Unofficial exclusions are illegal - this includes lunchtimes. They may rethink the lunchtime policy! School should be ensuring his needs are being met - a diagnosis will not change him and school has a responsibilty to support him.

If you keep your child off you can be reported to welfare. My ds school did this to me - once for taking him out during his exclusion period (school didn't know I had already cleared it with welfare) and then every afternoon that I kept him off due to lack of support in the afternoons while he was going through transistion to SEN school.

Google ACE and get their exclusion pack - it gives all guidelines and procedures school has to follow.

My ds eventually left his school aged 8 but they were never supportive even with this statement and 32.5hrs per week externally funded. ds is now in a school that wants him, he is happy and a different child. Wish I had removed him years ago!

Thankyou for that we feel like you that maybe it will be best if he went to a different school as we feel now it is just a easy option for them, but at the same time it maybe would be worse for him having to go through the whole procedure of meeting friends teachers etc.But at the end of the day we want support and the best for him

Are you aware it takes 6 months for a Statement to be issued. Also if the parent makes the application they have the right to appeal if it is refused, the school does not.

We fought for years to maintain ds placement, being low fuctioning we worried he wouldn't be accepted and the longer we kept him in the placement the more concerned we became.

What we didn't factor in was the difference that being in a place that cares about him has made. ds was excluded for 4 days for running in the corridors! At his new school, after an initial period to settle, he doesn't run at all - he doesn't feel the need to.

ds has obviously picked up on the negativity from school.

Really feel for you. Take care.

HI,
Sorry I don't really have any useful advice, but did not want to read and run.

Sounds like you are having one heck of a time with it all

I'm not sure what would happen if you kept him off until Monday, but I totally understand what you are saying!! I guess that you could always ask the school for permission - take a break until you have the results, the worst they say is no!

The lunchtime ruling does not sound good to me. It isn't exactly providing any stability for your LO in the school setting. And fair enough - I guess - that the lunchtime staff are not trained to handle these sorts of things, but a rota should be in place that there are teachers in the playground as well as the lunch time staff! They are trained!

Definately get that policy in writing!

I know that statements take a long time, but it's not true that you need a diagnosis - yes it gives you more ammunition - but if your child has additional needs (which the school obviously agree with as he has a 1-1 for some of the week) then he should be well into the process! Has the assessment process begun for the statement? If not, call and request it yourself, the school dont sound like they have much experience in dealing with SN to me.

Good Luck with the school, paed and ASD results - hope you get somewhere soon!

I agree that the lunchtime situation is not good and that he should be in school, as he is legally entitled to be. Obviously I don't know the situation but I do have experience of this in another school- lunchtimes can be a problem because the teachers need to have their lunch/a break. They will not want to take on supervision of another child.

If the school has an experienced/trained member of staff who is flexible re. hours and isn't already committed somewhere else in the school, then it can work, if not, this arrangement sometimes has to happen in the short-term.

The reality for most schools is that they are already stretched in terms of staff and they do not have the resources. Even if he has a TA full-time, someone else will have to be allocated to cover that persons lunchbreak.

I hope that your school is using this week to sort out these issues.

Thankyou once again for everyone that has given me advice and thoughts i really appreciate them all.I am aware that it takes a while for placements to be met but this is our 3rd year we have had problems within the school and itis only the past 3 months that they have decided that he needs a statement.
H e has been coming home with a report book for the last 2 terms with his behaviour and achievements in it which i am proud there has been some but that was it.W e have already told the school that when ds returns tomorrow that they can get on with it like they are trained to do as we agree the dinner situation isnt going to work as ds will not want to return to school.

Hiya again i have just phoned ds school to ask if they have got a plan and support with him going back tomorrow and i have just been informed that we have a reintegragation meeting 5 mins before the school starts so we will wait and see what they have to say then

Quick post to say I have been through something very similar for the last few years, including the lunchtime exclusions, oh and pe exclusions, school trip exclusions!! I don't know whether it is exactly the same for you, but I finally learnt that it was no longer worth battling with it anymore and looked for a more suitable environment. It broke my heart taking him away from his friends/ knowing he had to travel in a taxi to school etc, but it was the best thing I could have done. He is happy and thriving now, and I am no longer crying all day every day. Not saying you shouldn't try and make the current school work, just that sometimes you can't force them to want to make it work, and these exclusions are a good indicator of that imo. Btw only took me 6 weeks from dx of aspergers to get a level 5 statement, it can be done with A LOT of shouting. Good luck

Good Luck for tomorrow, let us all know how you go on.
You are right to tell them to get on with it.

I remember in both my primary and high school that we had dinner staff AND 2 teachers in the yard - the teachers varied everyday. I'm sure that dinnerstaff are not allowed to do all of the caregiving at a lunch break as they're simply not qualified and that there are meant to be teachers around.........

Maybe it's just my LEA but I know that the schools around here have teachers in the playground! I wouldn't expect anything other, SN children or not.

Hiya just letting you all know whats been happening with ds On friday we should have got a result from the mats team with a dx for ds but unfortunately the educatinal psychologist didnt turn up (NICE ONE )so was unable to have the meeting but since then my ds has been prescribed ritalin for his adhd problem from which he started taking it on saturday we saw little or no change in his behaviour although he did seem to be listening to us and concentrating a bit more and yesterday it didnt really kick in until the 2nd one just after dinner He said he felt ok but a bit dizzy and we found he was drinkingalot more

Is this a natural reaction to the ritalin
If anyone has any feedback would you let me know
thanks

coultie - we are trying ritalin too (well concerta xl to be exact). I didn't notice the drinking more, but it definitely takes time to "bed down" and from what I can glean on the internet, you need to give it 2 weeks before seeing full effects. We are 2 weeks 3 days in with concerta and it's a mixed picture - definitely better concentration in the morning after he takes it, but it doesn't seem to be lasting till the pm even though it's supposed to be slow release. His appetite and sleep are worse, he is going to sleep much later and not eating a great dinner. but we're hanging on in there!

Thanks for that i thought that it would start to work right away My ds appetite is poor to start off with so i am hoping it doesnt affect him much more. And as for him sleep we are fortunate that he is on melatoin to help him sleep or i think we would be up the wall with him.my ds takes 2 one in the morning which lasts to dinner time then one at dinnertime which lasts till he comes home You hang on in there and i hope you get the result that we are hoping to get in the not so distant future

Good luck and thanks

Coultie is he back at school?

How's that going?

What provision have they put in for him?

Hiya merle yeah he has been back at school just over a wwk now
He wasnt any different the first few days the school is trying all they cah atm until the lea decides to give him more ls which we have agreed he is needing ft but atn=m the lea are just putting it off and we feel we are getting no where with it all He started on the ritalin and thankfully we have a new son one that listens seems to understands more is concentrating more and isnt half as violent and distruptive as he has been so we can see a mega difference and for the first time in 3 yrs we love going to school to pick him up The head even took him to the bank and the post office as a treat for him being so good oh its bliss We have had a few nightmares since he has been on the ritalin and we are finding that the melatoin isnt working as good as he is waking up about 6ish every morning but hey we are enjoying our new ds son so who cares
thankyou ritalin