a little bit of controlled crying support please....!

[lovelymama]

My 6 month old DS went started 3 hour night wakes 2 weeks ago. He wants to play in the night (not hungry/ill) and then is shattered at 7am and needs a marathon nap. I was very ready to do controlled crying and got support from HV yesterday to start it. Last night he woke up at 2am and I did CC for 2 hours 10 minutes before he finally went to sleep. Followed Richard Ferber's method of leaving 5, 10, 15 then 20 mins. Was the most horrible thing I've ever done. I'm going to persevere as I think it's working. He woke up at 6am crying and had a poo but went back to sleep by himself (as it was so close to morning I didn't think there was any harm in leaving him in a dirty nappy for 1 hour). Anyway, just want to hear from someone that has succeeded with CC that tonight he won't cry for quite as long. Please!! I need some hope!

You'll probably get lots of people telling you he's too young, but we did cc at quite a young age with ds and it worked after about a week.

With the exception of illnesses, he's slept fine since.

See how it goes tonight and take it from there. It is not pleasant, but I think it is worse to do it with a toddler than with an older baby like yours.

I'm sorry I don't agree - I did 1 min max CC with a toddler who could understand my words, respond to me and we could talk about the process and his feelings. For me and my child it was much better and because he was older he didn't need to cry for long periods of time to get the point. For the OP I think there are quite a lot of support stories/threads on CC, if thats what you need? But it seems to vary on the baby/parent as to whether/how quickly it works.

6 months is the recommended minimum age to do it....the main reason why I'm doing it is because to have a child awake for 3 hours during the night is ridiculous. He was starting to become nocturnal in just 2 weeks - a morning nap of 3 hours but up for ages in the night can't be right. We tried to comfort him when he woke up by giving him cuddles but it seemed to make him mad - all he wanted to do was play and he wouldn't stop crying til we brought him downstairs where his toys are. I really, really hate hearing my baby cry but I give him so much love the rest of the time, I don't think it's going to do him harm. I just want reassurance that the method that I've chosen has worked for others...there's nothing like support from more experienced mums!

Lovelymama

Has he learned to do anything recently?? Like sitting up or commando crawling or anything?

Are you waking him up from his long daytime naps?

If you wake him after an hour (although he might want to sleep longer) you should catch him at the right stage in the sleep cycle and he shouldn't be too grumpy (don't leave it an hour and a half or he'll be in deep sleep).

I really think trying it from that angle first will be less unpleasant for both of you, of course if it doesn't work you will have to try something else.

I had a terrible sleeper for the first 7-8 months of his life and it took us a good couple of months (after we started) for the routine we used to really work (i.e. for him to start sleeping through). Cutting down daytime naps was a big part of the solution. It all finally fell into place at about 9 months and at nearly a year he often sleeps through the night or only needs resettled once or twice (and is resettled very easily).

lovelymama - do a search on old threads in this section. Here's one:
here

They do tend to be controversial, but there are always people saying it took X days and X hrs. HTH

He is in a massive development stage at the moment - learnt to sit up properly in 2 days, starting to 'talk' lots, doing some strange fish impressions with his mouth (we're pretty sure no teeth are coming yet though, so he's not crying in pain at night). I know that development can disrupt sleep but is that a reason not to do CC? DS has had 2 naps today and it used to be a real struggle to get him to nap - lots of crying and I would have to rock him in a chair to calm him. Today he's just let out a little cry and then gone straight to sleep. Either it's a coincidence or last night's efforts are already paying off! Thanks for responses everyone!

Lovelymama - we did CC with DD1 at the same age. We resorted to it when NOTHING would get her off to sleep at bedtime and naptime - not to say the fairly frequent night wakings. Picking her up just resulted in her crying even more. If I tried to BF her, she would become hysterical. Rocking and white noise had stopped being effective.

The first night she cried for 1.5 hours, fell asleep for 40 mins, then woke up and cried for another hour. She slept the whole night because she was clearly exhausted. The next night it was 1 hr and then 20 mins. It reduced over the week until she would cry for about 10mins max before sleeping. She never really gave up this crying until she was 18mths old, and still at 2.5 sometimes has a hysterical tantrum before she will go to sleep.

But I'd say CC worked for us, and that although it is VERY painful, you need to grit your teeth and put your earplugs in.

Sounds like he is sleeping far too much in the day - two naps of up to 3 hours each? You really need to cut back those before you start thinking about anything else IMO. He is just not tired at night-time, which is quite a different problem.

Those naps definitely sound too much for a 6 month old. My DS never slept that much

I think for that age you want to be doing 4 hours max, but I'd try waking your DS after an hour and a half of each nap and see if that helps before leaving him to cry.

Also, please don't expect your 6mo old to sleep through the night - I agree that 3 hours awake is not doable, but one or two night wakings for milk at that age is completely normal (and actually pretty good).

I did CIO with mine at 6mo for a short period to get him down from 3-10 night wakings to 2 - and to have a bedtime. He's since done the rest himself and now normally wakes once a night (at 10mo)

I would cut down the naps until he is sleeping better at night, and THEN worry about the night-wakings

Mine slept for about 1-2 hours a day at six months

If he isn't tired, do you really want him lying there AWAKE for hours at night but not shouting out? That seems a bit odd.

Lovelymama - sorry I have no advice on the CC, I never had the heart to do it when my DD went through these non-sleep phases.

But however awake and lively he is in the middle of the night, don't take him downstairs to his toys! From bitter experience any fun in the small hours creates a nocturnal baby

Hi all. Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post - he's only started doing the marathon morning nap in the last 2 weeks as he has spent so much of the night awake. Before that, total daytime naps totalled 2 or 3 hours over the entire day. I have been waking him up after 2 hours morning nap as I don't want him to sleep all morning. He will only sleep for up to 1 hour mid-afternoon then nothing else until he goes to bed (absolutely knackered and struggling to stay awake) at 7pm. So total nap time for the day is about 3 hours, maybe 3 1/2. He went for a nap at 9.10am this morning and I'm going to wake him after an hour and 1/2 to see if I can encourage a slightly longer afternoon nap (another hour and 1/2) so he can stay awake till bed time - yesterday I struggled to keep him awake until 7pm.

Do you really think he's not tired at 2am after only being in bed for 7 hours? previous to these night time wakes, he would happily sleep 13 hours, broken up with a small feed after 10 hours. I know he's not hungry in the night now as when he gets up in the morning, he's not that hungry and can happily wait 20 mins for a bottle. Anyway, sorry for long post - last night was actually worse than the first night as he woke up twice. First time took 45 mins to go back to sleep. 2nd time took 2 hours 10 mins to go back to sleep, although he wasn't screaming like he was the first night, it was more like his tired cry. Hoping the 3rd night will be better. I know people may think I'm mad for doing what I'm doing but the alternative was horrible and my child was so tired during the day he couldn't enjoy his life.

ChairmumMiaow - What is CIO?

CIO = Cry It Out

We tried CC but it made DS very angry, whereas CIO worked very quickly.

Night 3 of CC last night....except we didn't need to do it. DS went to bed at 7pm and slept through to just before 7 this morning. I woke at 4am and was so excited that he hadn't woken up, I couldn't sleep. So I'm knackered again today but I don't care, the elation is getting me though the day. That, and seeing my little boy refreshed and happy from the first full night's sleep he's had in his life. 2 nights of hell seem so worth it now - I just hope that he keeps getting 12 hours sleep so that he can always be as happy as he is today!

Only just found your post, but well done seeing it through. It is a horrid process I know but, as you have seen, it can and does work. We did CC with DS, which progressed to CIO effectively. (CC IS CIO in reality - just depends how long it takes them to fall asleep!)

There will be blips for a little while but stick it out. There is a real difference between "I'm crying because there is something wrong" and "I'm crying because I'm awake and not sure how to get back to sleep".

Just wanted to reassure you though that DS benefitted hugely from it (happy, refreshed etc.) and has not been traumatised in any way.

Elffriend - thank you so much and that's exactly what I needed to hear! I feel so happy that it has worked but I'm prepared for some blips - my friend warned me of this today. I just hope the blips don't last for 2 hours....not sure I could face it. Going to persevere though as otherwise all that crying would be for nothing.

Should not last for two hours I promise! Someoetod me t it took a couple of weeks for a new "routine" to really bed in so there might be blips during that time. Part of what helped me was identifying the "danger zones" - which is when DS would come into a light sleep cycle (as we all do, of course, throughout the night). If he woke during those times, the chances were there was nothing wrong and it was just that issue of waking up and not quite having the knack of going back off himself. The other thing that helped was telling myself that I did not want him to have come this far for nothing!

I was really anti the whole thing before I started but was driven from utter desperation (you will know what I mean!)but I don't regret it at all. We did not abandon DS, we taught him how to put himself to sleep. Big difference. He knows he is very loved and is very secure and happy - and sleeps well!!

Ha ha, funny how many people are anti CC then convert when they get 3 hours sleep a night due for a few months! thanks for the encouragement.....in the middle of the night how did you know when the light sleep cycle is? I have no idea when this is. or is that a stupid question?!

I was at the end of my tether by the time I did CC, dd cried for 2 hours 11 mins as I recall on the first night, 45 mins on 2nd night and went straight to sleep on the 3rd!. She now will only sleep in her cot, as she knows that's what it's for. She sleeps soundly now for 12 hours or so.
Had a few set backs, when she is ill etc, but on a whole it worked for us.
Well done, and enjoy your sleep

Hi Lovely, not a stupid question - just recognising if your little one wakes at typical times.

In terms of the light sleep cycle it was just what we recognised as being a regular pattern. The light sleep bit is generally very brief but, if a baby/child is not able to put themselves back to sleep automatially this can be when they look for whatever triggers they associate with going to sleep (e.g. mummy, boob, dummy, rocking etc.) For example, if he tended to wake on a regular basis at about 5.15 a.m then the chances were it was not somwthing hurting (pain is not that regular!) and we knew it was not hunger (we only embarked on this ehen we knew he was a good weight and eating/drinking all he needed during the day) then the chances were the pattern was due to a light sleep cycle.

You mention Ferber - he had a good explanation of this - helped me a lot in terms of understanding what was happening.

Even now, we know that if he has a light cold or something it is most likely to disturb him between 21.30 and 22.00. At that time a even a phone ringing downstairs might wake him (he once woke up because of a thunderstorm and asked me to turn off the rain - in so many words!) whereas in deep sleep he could probably sleep through an earthquake (and indeed has done!)

Thanks Elf - i'm re-reading Ferber everyday (I love that man - wonder if he's married...? . Too much information to take in the first time I read it so i'll have another look at the wakings bit. Here's to another night of sleep. I'll enjoy my glass of wine all the more tonight

I just wanted to add that although ds2 sometimes had irregular bedtimes, he never really cried when he was that age, and he always slept really well - waking to feed a couple of times in the night.
When I say he never cried, I mean he was fed on demand and went to sleep when he was tired...I think one evening he had a pain or something, and cried for about an hour while I carried him around - but never otherwise. We co slept and he was a very contented baby.

It is completely natural for them to wake in the night sometimes. It is also natural for them to nap in the day. I think the less you try to control it, the easier your life gets

I think we expect far too much of little baies sometimes and I also think controlled crying does have an effect on the baby.
But I am not a great mum myself in many respects and am not judging - just wanted to put another viewpoint into the mix.

Understand Flightattendant - it's cool that you're happy to feed DS in the night and co-sleep and if it works for you then brill. For us, waking in the night for 3 hours wasn't about hunger (my DS is on 98th centile for weight so I don't want to feed him if he's not genuinely hungry). Also, co sleeping doesn't work for me as DS wants to feed all night and I gave up BF when he was 5 months so not an option. Of course night waking is natural, we all wake in the night but have the ability to go back to sleep. If a baby wakes in the night and then takes 3 hours to get back to sleep and is miserable the next day, then I think that has more of a negative effect on the baby than 4 hours of crying over 2 days. The smile on my son's face when I went in his room this morning was the most lovely thing I've seen - better than the normal eye rubbing that greets me from a sleep deprived baby. And as an added bonus, I feel like I can give him more in the day as I haven't been coaxing him back to sleep for an age the night before.

Flightattendant- thank you for putting the other perspective - it is always valuable to remember that there are many approaches. I do agree with much of what you write. Wakings and erratic naps are certainly very natural and I would have loved dearly to just 'go with the flow'. In our case, that was just not going to work.

We took control of his crying as much for the sake of DS as ourselves. DS was suffering from all the signs of severe sleep deprivation and I am certain he would have suffered more if we had not put him through a short spell of sleep training.

I did not expect too much of my baby. He had suffered health problems which had left him with horrendous sleep habits. I needed to help him. This was our last resort but I genuinely don't believe he was damaged by the process.

I know you weren't judging but I just wanted to explain a little.

Lovely- enjoy the smiles! DS used to wake in the morning and sing happily to himself until we went into to collect him!