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Original poster

Right - so tonight proved that I am absolutely too much of a wimp to do sleep training which involves leaving ds to cry so....

28 replies

theUrbanNixie · 20/04/2008 21:08

HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLP MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

We've been doing No Cry Sleep Solution and I've managed to stop ds nursing to sleep. So he now nurses, then rolls off and falls asleep. But he won't be moved into his own bed and Elizabeth Pantley is strangely silent on what to do when your child wakes up in the night!!

i feel like i might die of tired.

OP posts:
JodieG1 · 20/04/2008 21:10

I feel your pain, I really do. Ethan is still the same.

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 20/04/2008 21:13

the thing is, i wouldn't mind co-sleeping/nursing to sleep etc, but it takes nearly 2 hours to get him to sleep and then he will only sleep with my boob in his mouth!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 20/04/2008 21:59

where is everyone???

OP posts:
seeker · 20/04/2008 22:02

How old is he?

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 20/04/2008 22:06

15 months

OP posts:
gagarin · 20/04/2008 22:08

If he's over 7-9 months then I'm afraid this behaviour is so entrenched that I really believe that you will have to either put up with it or do the short sharp shock stuff .

If he's got any sense he's old enough to want to continue doing what suits him best and I bet that's your nipple in his mouth!

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 21/04/2008 11:45

bumping for the daytime crowd?

OP posts:
seeker · 21/04/2008 21:38

Does he fall asleep easily at the breast? If so, how would you feel about co-sleeping and going with the flow until he grows out of it? Which he will - so if that's the way the most people get the most sleep then I would say go for it. Oh, and have you tried a dummy?

33kjs · 21/04/2008 21:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shitemum · 21/04/2008 22:00

I am a veteran of CC and I'm sorry but it works.
(When I say I'm a veteran It sounds like it doesnt work but that's because against my better judgement I sometimes allow things to slip and bfeed to sleep, then have to do CC again)

DD1 was trained at the age of 3 m (dons hard hat) and we had only a handful of broken nights in her entire babyhood. At 4.6 yo she still sleeps well and is happy and well-adjusted.

DD2 is made of sterner stuff and I am softer than I used to be. At 19 mo she still wakes us regularly during the wee hours. Her favourite trick is to stay awake for the next 3 hours while using us as a trampoline. I am still bfeeding her at bedtime and sometimes first thing in the morning after DP has brought her through to our bed. The problem is keeping her awake till I've finished reading DD1 a bedtime story as she invariably falls asleep on the breast.

Anyway, after a particularly gruelling week last week I Put My Foot Down.

Night 1: She cried for about 40 minutes. I went in every 2 or 3 minutes kissed her and laid her back down in her cot. She didn't wake us during the night.

Night 2: She cried for 3 seconds and then went to sleep.

Night 3: She fell asleep on the breast before I put her in the cot but didn't wake till 1am, 5 minutes after I'd gone to bed. I got up and laid her back down. I had to go back in about 7 or 8 times at 2 minute intervals. The last time she stopped crying very suddenly, gave a little cough and went back to sleep.

I am almost hoping she'll wake tonight so I can consolidate the good work!

You need to sleep and your ds needs his.

Be kind but firm.

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 21/04/2008 22:27

i can't do CC. i can't do rapid return or gradual withdrawal or any of the other methods which involve leaving him to cry.

we currently do co-sleep. i thought we were doing really well with No Cry Sleep Solution, but it seems to have gone down the pan in the past week or so. he takes about 2 hours to go to sleep (and has done for the past month so it's not just a blip) and then wakes up every 2 hours or so. tonight he's woken up every 10 minutes, and not gone back to sleep until i feed him. he will sometimes only sleep with the breast in his mouth.

i can't leave him to cry. that's just not an option. i don't mind carrying on with NCSS but what do i do when he wakes in the night? feed him? cuddle and let him cry while he roots for milk?

am seriously at the end of my tether...

OP posts:
Shitemum · 21/04/2008 22:35

Ok, well I would suggest you go on co-sleeping, just go to bed when he does and let him feed whenever he wants during the night.

But IMO his messed-up sleep patterns and your sleep deprivation are far more harmful than letting him cry a bit. You don't leave him to scream, you go in every 2 minutes. He learns that you ARE going to come back but nothing else interesting is going to happen. It works. But it won't unless you stick to it and don't give in.

33kjs · 21/04/2008 22:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flum · 21/04/2008 22:40

If you won't let him cry just carry on as you are. He will eventually grow out of it. Or become more dependant on you and you will just have to go to bed at same time as him every day.

My sister in law did this. She is Japanese though and it is normal there. She used to take her daughter up to bed and just stay up there for up to 3-4 hours until she went to sleep.

Bit tough on your marriage though.

Very sweet and kind to not want child to cry though.

Shitemum · 21/04/2008 22:41

33kjs - I'm afraid cutting back on the daytime naps could have a detrimental effect on nightime sleep - strangely, the better they nap the better they sleep, and the better they sleep the better they nap!
An overtired child does not sleep better. They only learn good sleep habits with our help. IMO.

I don't let DD2 be napping less than 3 hours before bedtime.

mybestfriendiscalledstig · 21/04/2008 22:42

OK, we did NCSS (with eventual success ), will try & help

  1. Recognise that you have made progress - he will now go to sleep alone. Pat on back time. It ain't all going to get fixed at once if you want to go gently.
  2. What else calms him? Could you pat him in his cot? Bring him in with you but try and refuse milk for a few nights (could you sleep elsewhere and your oh do that bit??)

Personally, at 15 mths I probably would start being a bit tougher with the milk bit (that said, dd still has milk if she wakes in the night, & she's 2 ... but her night waking got better when we phased out night nursing)...but then I lurrve co-sleeping so am not keen to cut down on that

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 21/04/2008 22:42

Shitemum - last night he screamed so much he was sick. he screams and bangs his head on the sides of the cot so we got him a travel cot and he found the hard bit and bounced himself off it until he was all covered in bruises. i'm worried he's going to do himself some serious injury if I leave him to cry.

he won't touch formula. he doesn't even take a bottle.

next time i'm not going to breastfeed. i'm going to get Claire Verity to be my nanny. actually, there won't be a next time cause i'm never having any more kids.

OP posts:
pulapula · 21/04/2008 22:46

Is it the crying you can't take, or being in another room? If it's the latter, then pupd might be for you, as you stay with them, although they will cry as they will protest. The crying will reduce once you start, but you have to follow-through otherwise you will have made them cry for nothing.

Original poster
theUrbanNixie · 21/04/2008 22:48

it's leaving him to cry. i think he'd get more upset if i did pupd because he wouldn't understand why i didn't pick him up and cuddle him.

my hv has recommended rapid return, where you put them down then go in ever 5 minutes to calm them. but i'm worried he will really hurt himself if i do that...

OP posts:
mybestfriendiscalledstig · 21/04/2008 22:49

Oh urbannixie. It WILL get better. Your child will NOT be expecting you to co-sleep & bf all night when they are 18. Trust me.

Fwiw, ds (first child) - was pressured into CCing, probably at about 15mths, having tried everything (it felt). Did it for a solid 2 weeks. Hated it. At the end of the two weeks, he was still waking as often as he did when we started. He started sleeping through fairly consistently at about 18mths (although wasn't a great sleeper til about 3.5 - now sleeps for England)
dd (second child) - co-slept from about 3 mths (she would self settle, but come in with us when she woke) Started sleeping through fairly consistently at 18mth (still co-sleeps if she wakes up - now 2)

Imho, my kids were ready to sleep through at 18mths. Regardless of my actions. But my life was about 100% more pleasant when I went with dd's route rather than fighting

lillee · 21/04/2008 22:51

Shitemum i totally agree with you re overtired babies.

Can't really comment on rest of your situation re bf and sleeping cos i could only bf my ds until he was six months. We still co sleep off and on depending on if he is ill or whatever but more often than not he knows he should sleep in his cot and that's where he sleeps most nights.

Sorry Urban, you may not thank me for saying this but in view of your other thread maybe leave it a few days until he's a bit 'more himself' then try again? I know the tiredness thing can get you to the end of your tether though, totally with you there.

33kjs · 21/04/2008 22:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mybestfriendiscalledstig · 21/04/2008 22:55

I also agree with shitemum re the overtired thing - its weird but true - my mum used to witter on about not letting them sleep so they slept better at night - it doesn't work!!

Haven't seen your other thread, but if your lo isn't well, defn worth postponing all decisions & going with status quo for now.

KerryMum · 21/04/2008 22:56

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shitemum · 21/04/2008 22:57

oh dear. Havent read your other thread and dont know the ins and outs of rapid return but I go in more often than every 5 mins when im doing CC. Does he calm down when you go in?
I've been tempted to drug DD2, i have to admit...