45m sleep chunks..I need advice!!

[Grumpynewmum23]

Hi

My baby is now 6m old (25wk) and since he was about 10 weeks old he has not sleep for more than 45mins in a row day and night.
I feel like I've tried everything I can think of (except crying related sleep training methods) to get baby to sleep for longer, I stick to age appropriate wake windows, I've tried extending naps, I've tried to pat his tummy and shush him, tried drowsy but awake, tried cosleeping, putting him in his own room etc but I actually feel like I'm going crazy because no matter what happens I get approx 60 total minutes of daytime to completely myself (he takes 3x45 min naps but takes 20ish mins to settle in, needs me there so about 20m left of each nap and partner works 80hr weeks on 2 jobs) and then overnight needs help to resettle every 45mins/feed every couple of hours. So normally goes to bed about 7 and wakes up at 7, with around 12/13 wake ups in between. Nap at 9ish, 12ish and 3ish (depending on wake ups).
So overnight for the last 15 weeks, I just havent sleep for more than about 35m in a row and I think I might be losing my mind. Makes me feel really emotional, has had such a negative effect on my relationship and just makes me feel so down.

Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do? Any advice welcome as I'm desperate for even 90m in a row 😫

Awww bless you, it sounds like you've tried everything and this has resulted in baby learning that if he wants cuddles, strokes, attention of any kind he has to cry and it magically appears. It's been a long time since I had babies but I've raised three. I had one that didn't sleep for very long as a baby, (still up at the crack of dawn at 28years and loves mornings) anyway time for mum to set some rules, I used music and a light ball that displayed lights on the ceiling. If baby is safe in the cot at ten in the morning after a bottle I'd put him in his cot, close the curtains put the lights and music on and and this would distract him long enough to relax n sleep. Same at night feed....bottle/Brest (is best, both if you want, I did) lights music n close the door. Did he cry? Yes. However he quickly learned that as soon as the lights and music came on it was time for sleep. If he woke straight after the music finished I used to go in and wind it back up and leave. I stuck to ten o'clock in the morning and would go n have a coffee to distract from his sobs but eventually the lights n music would distract him. You could also put a dab of lavender on the second return as a third stimuli often the scent would calm him,. When you have a sleep association with the light/sound/scent it works a treat at night and by the time he was a year he'd stopped crying and waking for my attention. Maybe it's too much "pandering" (for want of a better word) but mum needs sleep too. It's a lonely place with a baby that doesn't sleep and and around 15-30 weeks the tiredness has kicked in for you. I think a gentle but firm sleep routine needs to be applied before baby has you so you don't know whether you're coming or going. I even used to tell him after I'd put him down (when he could recognise that "when ya gotta go, ya gotta go") that mummy needs the loo and he used to except that crying was no good because I was on the loo and after ten minutes he'd be fast asleep. Also when baby wakes try not to rush, try n leave it a few minutes to break the cycle of you appearing as soon as baby cries, they loose the habit and will often fall back asleep. Mums the boss. Gentle but firm. Baby steps. After 45 minutes introduce the music, if baby won't return to sleep, introduce the lights, then introduce the scent then walk away get a coffee n let baby cry a little, it keeps the lungs healthy and wears baby out to settle back down. (We all feel better after a good cry) I think baby needs to realise that nap time is nap time whether they like it or not. Start by leaving it a bit after baby wakes before you enter the nursery break that cycle slowly and a less hands on approach. I'm sorry if my reply jumps all over the place just wanted to give you a few avenues in no particular order. Best wishes n remember mums boss and you need rest too. Xx

That sounds very difficult.

You might want to have a look at Basis (https://www.basisonline.org.uk/) and the Possum Sleep programme (about 40quid for 6months - https://possumsonline.com/milk-and-moon-membership).

They focus on night time sleep: making it as compact as possible to reduce night wakings and not worrying about day time naps as much.

I found them very helpful when the usual advice (focusing on day time naps) wasn’t working/was driving me mad

I had one like that. It was so so awful. Nothing worked. The only thing that helped was my husband doing some of the night feeds. We combi fed so we were able to do it. Then I could get two hours sleep in a row. I went and slept in a separate room.

Yes my first was the same after the 4 month regression and now my 2nd (also 25 weeks) is the same. I think the problem is that they don't know how to transition between sleep cycles so want everything to be exactly the same as when they fell asleep. For mine this means being breastfed. This is developmentally normal and will change on its own without you doing anything though it may take many months which would be so draining. For my first I successfully used gradual retreat sleep training. First night was on off crying for about 45 minutes to get her to go to sleep lying in the next to me cot with a dummy, me cuddling and singing. From there every night I did a little bit less and moved a little bit further away until she was able to go to sleep on her own just being put in the cot and I was out of the room. There were very few further tears after the first night but it took me several weeks. Baby continued to wake just as much until able to go to sleep completely on her own. We're about to try the same thing with my 2nd if you wanted to do it together?

My first was like this for a while so I feel you - you must be exhausted. To be honest, I gave in! Babies sleep development isn't linear and it a lot of the information on sleep isn't based on science (like wake windows, cry it out, them not being able to settle by themselves if you've fed them to sleep etc) and will just drive you insane trying to follow them.

The one thing I found worked was prolonged physical contact with me. So even at 6 months, I would get skin to skin and feed to sleep. I would get into a reclined position and sleep with baby on my chest - look at the La Leche League for more information on this position and the safety of it. That way the baby slept for a solid amount of time, and so did I.

The more I did this, the more they slept each week and eventually I was able to just leave her safely on my bed asleep. I also would use a sling to prolong naps, and the car. The more extended sleeps they get, the better it becomes. I think at this stage baby must be as over tired as you, so even if it means driving around for a bit to keep them asleep or whatever you have to go for it!

Hi all,

Thanks for your empathy and advice, interesting to see different approaches have worked for different people and babies - sounds like it is a case of just working it out a bit.

@Emz6103 thanks for your advice! I like the idea of something to distract him like lights/gentle music. I might try that and see if works.. I mean even if he doesn't sleep for longer then atleast it's a bit of chill out time for him?!

@Towtowtowyourboat thank you for this - I'll defo look at BASIS! I've heard good things before and agree it drives me mad with the focus on day sleep etc.

@ParticularlySmall I'm sorry you had it too, it's tough isn't it! Glad you were combi feeding and managing 2hrs.. If only it were enough to function on 😔

@CasaMundi I'm glad retreat worked for you! I think partly that's the thing too- it's so easy to boob him back to sleep and he is ebf so that's what he's used to. Thanks for you for the advice though i might build up to it 😊

@headcheffer thanks for this too, interestingly today I just leaned into his naps (mostly as so tired I couldn't do anything else) and just followed my instinct and just fed him to sleep, slept him skin to skin on my chest and he actually slept 1.5hr for nap 1, 1hr for nap 2 and 1.5hr for nap 3 and then so far tonight he has only woken twice since 6.50pm for feeds and once to be comforted but is now back to sleep! So I've actually managed 2x 2hrs of sleep in a row which is amazing. I think this might be the approach for me if it continues to work. I would love to cosleep but when I have woke up continuously panicking babe has suffocated etc so wasn't very restful for me - need to build up my confidence.

Pleased you had a better night OP! You'll have good days and bad days but I think they really do need physical contact with mum sometimes, they're only babies after all hope you have a good day today too and get some napping in yourself.

I did a lot of cuddle naps when mine was small. It unfortunately didn’t make a difference to the nights but if it does for you, then go for it!

@headcheffer thank you! Yeah he woke every hr after about 2 but soooo much better than previously! Gonna just enjoy the cuddles again today - I do love a contact nap but think I easily fall into the FTM trap of feeling like he should be sleeping independently even though I find it hard myself!!

@ParticularlySmall I do feel like it might have been flukey but atleast a cuddle nap lets you rest too I suppose even if it doesn't do anything for the nights- hope you sleep more now!! ❤

DS2 was like this, only slept for 45 mins at a time, day or night. It didn’t change until he was weaned at 2 and a half and went into his own bed. With hindsight (he’s 30 now), I would have weaned him sooner (EBF) and not co-slept, but it seemed like I was doing the right thing at the time. He wouldn’t take a bottle because I left it too long to introduce it so I did every feed myself. It was a living hell because we were both sleep-deprived and he cried all the time.
In the same situation now, I would investigate everything- tongue tie, reflux, cranial osteopathy, massage, allergies (he also had eczema) etc and would make sure he had a bottle and a dummy.
I hope you can solve it OP, you have my sympathy. If it’s any consolation, once mine went into his own bed we never had another broken night with him.

One day you will look back and think it was so so so lovely to have all those cuddle naps. So many people will tell you that your baby should be sleeping independently and will try to make you feel bad (mainly reading too many bloody sleep blogs will do this).

However, just imagine the absolute peace that your baby must feel falling asleep on you.

Really don’t worry about it. Mine both sleep independently now. There is a time for getting them to do that and one day you’ll try putting your baby into the cot and it’ll just work. Because he’ll be ready for it. Obvs it the contact naps aren’t working for you for some reason, you can try to change them.

Op, it sounds like things are a bit better already. Like others, holding Ds was sometimes the best option. For us, he was also more likely to wake up if he was over tired. So getting him down promptly was good and then holding him throughout the first sleep cycle (for nap or bedtime) and then being there to help him go back to sleep before he even really woke up. We could then put him down. So, for example, for a nap, we'd land up being with him for about 50 minutes and then we'd get the second sleep cycle of around 40 minutes to chill/do things. And at night, once he got past that first sleep cycle and was starting to be properly rested, he was more likely to then sleep for a few hours consecutively.

Even now (he's 12!) - he struggles to sleep and if he falls asleep, we have to be very careful not to accidentally wake him as he sleeps very lightly for the first hour or hour and a half. THEN he's dead to the world!

Last night was even worse! He fell asleep at 6.15pm bedtime for 40m and then would not go back down - my partner got back from work at 9pm and took him for a drive for an hour so I could sleep (currently I have a chest infection and conjunctivitis which I'm sure is bc I am just run down!), baby then wouldn't settle and was awake until midnight when he eventually went to sleep, then he woke up at 12.56am, spent an hr not settling again, woke at 2.45am, settled at 3am a d slept til 4.15am, then 5.50am when he decided it was morning and wouldn't go back to sleep. Safe to say I am just done in and partner has taken day off work just to help me out as feel so ill and shocking for no sleep and being a bit under the weather. I'm getting a bit desperate and whilst I said I don't want to sleep train I do feel like we need to do something as its just having a negative effect on all our lives - baby is exhausted, so am I and partner just feels useless as baby currently wont settle for him and the only thing he can do to help is to drive him but unrealistic to ask partner to do this all the time as he already works 80hrs a week and has 3 v late nights a week as it is.

I do soak up the cuddly contact naps, but equally they are also a time where I can't even sleep whilst he sleeps, and I would enjoy them a bit more if I could even just get 90m consistently in a row a few times a night.

Oh @Grumpynewmum23 :(

You have done so well to get this far on so little sleep.

Is your partner able to take any time off so you can recover? Whatever you decide to do will be easier if you have got some rest first.

Thank you. It just seems to be getting worse but fingers crossed for tonight!

Unfortunately not, he has set holidays so can't take annual leave as such.

I'm going to try and dummy tonight because even if I have to wake each hr to pop it in again atleast I can lie down whilst baby is in next2me.

Good luck @Grumpynewmum23 - hope the dummy helps. Has he accepted one before? Mine has consistently refused one but to be fair I've not tried for several months so would be worth another go...

@CasaMundi thank you!

No, he hasn't ever before but he's always been a bottle refuser too but since starting a few solids he's loved having little bits of expressed milk from his tommeetippee transition cup so am trying again just in case he's become less fussy - possibly in vain.

That sounds really hard! First of all dummies are great, give them a go.
And secondly, at 6 months you will start weaning, and that might make everything better. The first time my son had a big lunch he slept for about 3 hours!

they also start playing by themselves which is a lot easier, you will sleep again I am sure. You’ve done the hardest 6 months already! My son is now 18 months and last night he slept from 10 to 7 all the way through, I never thought we would get there but we did, and you will too x

Good luck!

Hi @omm

Thanks! Yeah I gave him a lil 5pm meal of baby rice, bit of banana and ebm in the hope that'd help. He absolutely loves his food and already feeds himself with a little spoon - we aren't doing blw as he literally doesn't gum stuff but just crams everything in then gags and I get too worried about choking so we're doing various mashy concoctions of our meals! He'd have 100 meals a day if it was up to him 🤣

Yeah the daytimes are way easier, he's very mobile and 'crawls' everywhere on his back so have to watch him every second as he'll disappear off but atleast it's easier for him to tire himself out a bit!

Glad your lo sleeps.. I know we will get there eventually but for know I'd be happy with 4/5 wake ups a night even.. my standards are very low 🤣🤣

@OhBling did your trick this evening of holding for first sleep cycle then put him down (fell asleep 6.30, held til 7.15, then popped him down) and has slept continuously since and has just settled himself through another sleep cycle. Will defo keep trying this as seems to prevent that over tired waking and I've actually managed a shower and dinner with my partner which has been so so lovely.

Oh gosh this brings back memories (DD is currently 9 months). I also felt I was losing my mind and was struggling to function safely. I had some advice at the time about 'going with it' and that she would grow out of it. For me personally this didn't feel right and I felt I had to be pro active. We did gentle sleep training based on PUPD, it took weeks but I'm convinced it did help. Since about 6 months my DD has slept in her own room....initially waking up around 3 times but this is now down to 1-2 times. I always focused on the bed time and breastfed back to sleep during the night wakings as I was/am too exhausted to faff about with sleep training at overnight wakes. From around 7 months daytime naps extended to 1.5-2 hours, we have focused on naps in cot at home when possible (not always). This may not be for everyone but works for us, and I'm convinced our approach has helped rather than waiting for things to improve on their own. Good luck, and I hope things improve for you soon x

@MooMa83 sorry you had to go through it too- it is just tough isn't it and completely agree that there's only so much leaning into it you can do.. I mean I've tried that for about 3/4 months!!!

Could you describe how you did your pupd? Sounds like a good option.

I'm praying it's not luck but he's just had best night ever. Bedtime @ 6.30, fussed at 7.15pm at the end of that first sleep cycle so I popped q dummy in which he didn't actively suck but he did go immediately back to sleep then slept til 11.00 then woke at 2 and 5 am. I actually feel like a completely different person today!!! He slept in his n2m with me in the spare room with white noise on but I fed him laying in bed and just removed covers qnd pillows incase I fell asleep to ease some worry.

I think it's a combo of an evening meal, holding through first sleep cycle, dummy and feeding back to sleep while cosleeping but going to try and emulate tonight as would love few more nights like this!!

Oh, I am SOOO glad. It's not a magic bullet and it won't solve all your problems, but even if it helps a bit, it's so great. I think DC who resist sleep are the worst as they then are almost permanently overtired... making them resist sleep even more.

When Dh used to drive DS around for his day time naps (he often refused to sleep at home), he'd park up once he was asleep but at exactly the 40 minute mark... start driving again so that when he started stirring he went straight back to sleep!

Consider, could it be a medical issue? We had same for years. Turned out she had sleep apnoea. We weren't taken seriously by GP but saw a private ENT who within five mins said from his mouth breathing he probably had it. After investigation, Yes, sleep apnoea.

Just to add ours slept well till 3months (or we thought she did) funnily enough also a bottle refuser - thinking about it now it was probably because she had less control over the flow and it was a struggle with nose breathing.