Our 17 month old rules the house & is destroying my marriage

[Dontthowthetoast]

We have a 17 month old.

He rules our house and we are working on that. He is putting huge strain on our marriage. Our 8 year old daughter is miserable and our 8 week old barely gets a look in.
I'm also partially disabled and rely on my husbands help alot and take alot of medication. This all happened during pregnancy so is really recent.

The main issue is his sleep.
He will have a 2 hour co nap with me during the day.

At night he gets ready for bed, has milk and calm time. Then he goes to bed.
We have had to take the cot side off and he was standing laughing and rocking the cot it made it dangerous.

Now we used to.put him to bed and rub his back until he went to sleep. This now doesn't work.

We read him a story in bed, put classical fm on as since birth and have to lie at the side of the bed until he goes to.sleep.

He pulls our hair, scratches, screams, laughs, bites, jumps.up and down
Screams if we leave. Sometimes this can go on for 3 hours.

This means our 8 year old gets no parent time and we struggle with our 9 week old.

When he finally goes to.sleep everyone else is ready for bed too. It's exhausting and painful. He also won't sleep through the night. So I look after the baby and my husband does our ds.

We have 2 weeks off now together over Easter leave and really need to tackle this. We are exhausted and it is destroying my marriage and our family life.

Please can anyone help?

Clear everything out of the room apart from bed. Stair gate over the door. Then put him to bed and leave. Return every 10 mins to place him into bed. Rinse and repeat. (unless you suspect additional needs).

Has this all happened in the last 8 weeks? Don’t underestimate the impact of bringing a new baby into a house on young children.

Take a look at some Janet Lansbury for ideas. She’s brilliant with this stuff.

www.janetlansbury.com/

I think I’d get the side back on the cot and do gradual retreat type sleep training. Would he really have been able to tip the cot? If so maybe buy a sturdier one. It’s so hard to implement consistent rules around sleep when exhausted and with other children and partner conflict in the mix. I really like Lucy Wolfe for sleep advice, she has a good book or Instagram videos.

Good point about the new baby.

Make sure you wear him out during the daytime. A trampoline is good for wearing a child out. Cut back his daytime nap as if he is getting a solid 2 hours during the day then he will.need less at night.

A 17 month old on a trampoline needs constant supervision.

Thank you, no his sleep has been a constant battle.
A nap of less than 2 hours makes it even worse.

The cot side with gradual retreat also took 3 hours..

I will look at everyone's ideas it's absolutely exhausting

Is it just the bedtime? what is he like the rest of the day? Does he speak?

I really think this is what happens with most kids of that age when they have a new sibling/ less parental attention. They will find ways of getting the attention all on them, because at 17m they are egotistical and want to be the centre of attention (that's appropriate for their age, it's what you'd expect). I do think some sleep training would be helpful, but otherwise try to view things from your toddlers perspective. I really think it's so hard for them in those early days because they can't relate to the baby yet. The baby is the centre of attention, but also fragile and a bit scary. Whereas that same baby at 9/10/11months onwards is a play mate to them.
How much input does the 17m old have. During the day? Could you and husband take it in turns to be with the baby and the toddler? Could one of you do bed time, and the other do some 1:1 time with the 8 year old? Is there somebody You could bubble with for some extra support? I really think as soon as you get beyond a 1:1 ratio with very young children somebody will be going short on attention and start acting up. I say that as a single parent to more than one child, so I do know and I see it and have to carve out time with my DC individually which was so, so hard when I was trying to manage the needs of a baby and toddler.
A 17m old has very similar attention needs to a 8 week old. All their needs are still so dependent on you, but their need for nurture changes so they need you to talk to them and play with them. Can you get the 17m old involved in babies care? Helping with baths, nappy changes, my older kids were great at handing me things like bottles, bottle lids, dummies, Muslins etc. They also enjoyed having story time all together, when baby was feeding or nursing. There are ways for them to be involved that will help nurture that sibling bond and stop them (but especially the toddler) feeling left out/replaced.
Could you bath the toddler and baby together? Or all 3 if eldest is up for it? That can be such a special bonding time before baby is eating like the others and able to play with them.
Also games like peekaboo and getting the older ones to blow razzers or bubbles for the baby. Get them involved. But also make sure to carve out some times just for them. Maybe if husband takes the toddler to the park, and you stay home with baby, you could watch a film with eldest? And then the next day husband can take eldest out, and you do some tummy time with baby with toddler helping? Then next time you watch a movie with the older two, an husband takes the baby out in the pram? Just make sure everyone is getting input from both parents. I made sure to always put my eldest to bed, even if it was just 10mins each evening We got some special time together To check in properly.

I had to be really tough with my 17mo because I also had a newborn at the time too so I understand the pain.

I gave him 3 dummies, white noise on, and let him cry but I returned every 5, then 10 mins. It was the only way I could survive with the newborn. It worked after a few nights but he is 22m now and I sometimes have to repeat it.

Nap 12.30 - 2 or 1-2.30 absolute latest.
Bed 7pm latest.
You’ll have to get pretty strict on boundaries at bedtime and stick to them 100%.

I would contact your local children's centre/ early help hub/ health visitor and see if they can provide advice and support. I know that the early help workers are back making visits in my area.

does he need to go to bed that early? Ours used to quietly play until about 9 or 10 pm. Then we'd take them up. Admittedly like us they were and still are (in their 20s) night owls...

two babies at a time is hard. It will get easier

Hes very good during the day, very loving towards the baby and both have nappy changes together and he brings her toys.

He does talk alot.

He is always on the go never stops,. We live in the countryside but near the beach so he gets a good run everyday.

Our 8 year old loves him but.finds him frustrating. They all bath together which they absolutely love.

He naps 11-1, I think I'm going to have to try repeat and return but I'm so reluctant for him to cry.

9 or 10pm is very very late for a 17 month old and in most cases would lead to an incredibly overtired and cranky toddler

My health visitor is in contact due to my.illness but hasn't been very helpful with his sleep....

I do think sleep training might help. It's not pleasant but it gets results, and your little boy must be shattered - remember you're doing it for him, as well as the rest of the family.

Around this age children go through an intense separation anxiety stage, it's developmentally normal but very hard work for the parents. Add in the new baby and this will likely compound your toddlers anxiety. Just so you know it's normal! I think strict sleep training is sometimes the only way. The hard work you put in in the early years will pay off eventually. I have friends with 4 and 5 year olds who still don't sleep and scream on waking, or get up at some ungodly hour. It's tough but worth getting it sorted now even if it feels hellish.

@LapinR0se

9 or 10pm is very very late for a 17 month old and in most cases would lead to an incredibly overtired and cranky toddler

Depends what time they wake. Mine didn’t wake till about 10:30am going to bed at that time.

That's a very close age gap between your two youngest. From his perspective he is still a baby now fighting attention for a new baby entering the house. I feel for the poor guy. I think people often idealise that kids that young in age will eventually be good playmates and that may be the case much later on but the reality is this right now, spreading your already limited time between him and a newborn. I imagine he just needs to know and feel that he still matters. His behaviour is achieving what he wants, it's getting you to give him the attention he misses.

What would happen if you went up later? How much sleep is he getting in total over the day? I'm wondering if he's just not that tired initially and that's where all the negative behaviours are coming from. Would he sit for a joint story with your 8yo so that she can get some time and then try to settle him after that?

@Dontthowthetoast I’d have a look at Calmandbrightsleepsupport on Instagram. They sell sleep plans but have a highlight of so much free advice and that was enough to sort out my daughters sleep in a few days.

None of mine were allowed to nap after 2pm. Also get outdoors as much as possible to wear him right out each day.

I am going to get roasted. But
I was harsh. I picked a day and decided that day would be the end of it. Built myself up to it over a few days. So I put him to bed and left him. He cried ALL night. I sat on the landing outside his room all night. His door was closed. He screamed, sobbed , fell asleep woke up repeated and eventually fell asleep about 5 in the morning. Exhausted. Next night woke in the middle of the night again. Settled him once and left. Cried a bit for 20 minutes and slept . He slept through the night always from then......very harsh but it worked. 🤷‍♀️ There was nothing wrong with him, he had just got into the habit of waking up if he stirred in the night. He was a bit younger than this. He is an adult now with no lasting damage!!!
It is NOT easy to do. I had tried everything else and I made sure my husband had a good few drinks on the night I choose!
Ps my son also had a good day nap as well. Good luck! Continuous Lack of sleep is very draining.