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Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

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Original poster

call me thick, but...

33 replies

phdlife · 05/06/2007 12:44

How do you build "sleep associations", ffs?

DS (7 weeks) goes to sleep in someone's arms, veerrry occasionally his pram or the carseat. End of. I've tried doing the same patting/singing to him in his basket: no dice. Nor does he want to co-sleep.

So, if you try for an hour and they just WON'T go down and are crying because tired/frustrated, do you just keep trying? Or go back to tried-and-trusted methods??? In which case, how're they ever going to learn anything new?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

madmarchhare · 05/06/2007 12:48

IMHO, 7 weeks is too young to be stressing about such things.

CarGirl · 05/06/2007 12:52

dd4 was like this I went through the pick up put down method. When I knew she was tired and due to sleep I put her in the cot, she cried, I picked her up cuddled her until she was calm, but her down again, she cried, I picked her up cuddled her until calm put her down again.................and so on.

I probably left her crying for a couple of minutes max each time and I did it for every sleep I think. Within two days she was happy to go down awake in her cot and go to sleep. She was younger than 7 weeks at the time which may have helped, I don't know.

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 12:55

agree with madmarchhare.

i found that when dd was that age and overtired, no it was v. difficult to get her to sleep if she was overtired. i don't know what you mean by 'nor does he want to co-sleep' but ime when you are lying there and she couldn't seem to close her eye and wanted to suckle nonstop, you had to go with it, and when she did eventually shut her eyes, you had to stay there and move slightly away, milimeter by milimeter til you were a comfy 6 inches away or her eyes popped wide open.

put her in a sling and go for a long walk and don't stress about it.

bakedpotato · 05/06/2007 12:59

how long is he awake for? he may settle more easily in his basket if he's not overtired, ie try putting him down when he has been awake for about 1hr30... 2 hrs tops

jorange5 · 05/06/2007 14:48

put her in a sling and have a dance to something on the radio.

Original poster

phdlife · 05/06/2007 14:50

we do sometimes have the overtired/crying problem (usually, I must say, because he's been fighting sleep), but it doesn't seem to matter when I lay him down. He can be yawning but still alert and cooing, eyes drooping/head nodding, or conked right out - within about 10mins of laying him down, he's howling. Or sooner.

"he doesn't want to co-sleep means", if I lay him down on our bed, he cries, no matter how close I am. Warm sheets, clothes that smell like me - he doesn't fall for it. It's arms or nothing.

and madmarch, I don't want to stress about it - on the other hand holding/carrying a 13lb baby all day long because he won't nap anywhere else is doing my back in - even if he's in the sling it's a hell of a lot of weight after the 2nd or 3rd nap of the day. Not to mention doing my head in.

OP posts:

bakedpotato · 05/06/2007 15:05

have you tried swaddling, nice and tight, not unlike being held?

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 15:07

with to your first paragraph, feed your baby to sleep. hold your baby to sleep etc, etc. repeat after me...

i am not creating a sleep association.

you are giving her the closeness she needs and you need.

your baby is teeeny. 75% of her brain will grow after she is born. she was born with almost no frontal lobe. that is the bit that makes us different from the other apes.

please go out and buy borrow or steal the book 'Baby Bliss' by Dr Harvey Karp. every new mum should read it in the last month of pregnancy.

on a practical note, what kind of sling are you using? the shop bought ones are awful for mums and babies alike.

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 15:08

oooh, you like buckwheat zydeco.

you are my kind of person.

bagsundereyes · 05/06/2007 15:09

Hi phd,

I'm by no means expert here, as you can tell from my presence on the sleep is for the weak thread.

DD is 12 weeks and initially we had this problem. We started off getting her to spend more time out of my arms when awake. Then we moved her on to napping in her bouncy chair or car seat, as this seemed more like being held, as she was better supported. 2 weeks ago we moved onto the Moses basket for naps.

It is really hard to decide what to do if they wake though. If she wakes, I tend to aim to resettle her where she is, but if she moves from fussing to crying, I cuddle her to extreme sleepiness, because otherwise she does get very frustrated and overtired. We're a very very long way from getting her into a decent sleeping pattern, as she mostly only naps for 30 mins, but looking back we have made baby steps towards independent sleep.

Wishing you luck whatever you try .

Iklboo · 05/06/2007 15:10

We found a swing really helped too

Original poster

phdlife · 05/06/2007 16:13

kiskidee my baby is not teeny. HE is 13lbs 10oz, and I've just been holding him for the past hour while he thrashed, threw his head around, and whinged, trying to get off to sleep. And no, it didn't work. Again. I've been holding him or had him in sling all day. My head and back and shoulders ache and ffs I would really like to make some lunch let alone poo without someone screaming the flat apart because I dared put him down for 5 minutes. I know you mean well, but please don't tell me I need more closeness - I NEED this little boy to get some sleep so that we don't have 4 hrs of overtired screaming like we did last night, okay?

now if you will excuse me I have to go pick him up. again.

OP posts:

Slim · 05/06/2007 16:18

PhD: If all else fails, put him somewhere safe (like his cot) and leave him for a few minutes. It won't harm him and he may (!) fall asleep anyway.

I feel for you: DS is still a bad sleeper, though he will sleep in his pushchair quite well (just entails miles of walks a day!).

Have you thought about trying cranial osteopathy? I'm taking DS for the first time tomorrow in the hope that it will help with him settling in the cot.

Slim · 05/06/2007 16:19

Oh, and I seem to remember that if you've been trying to get them to nap for 40-45 mins and have failed, give up and do something else and wait till the next tired signs. Otherwise you spend all your time trying to get the b*ggers to sleep (from bitter experience)

bagsundereyes · 05/06/2007 16:26

Oh PHD! Sounds awful. It's terrible not even being able to get a minute to just do the basics like grab a bite, or indeed breathe. Nothing further to offer other than big, big hugs.

flamingtoaster · 05/06/2007 16:33

phdlife I remember this phase well - my son cried for the first six weeks of his life if put down. I still vividly remember the first time I sat on the loo and there was no crying because he was willing to be put in the bouncy chair (I think it may have been because he could still see me). The "four hours of overtired screaming" you describe from last night could be colic (it was with my son) and that bit continued for a while even after he would be put down during the day, so it might be worth looking at previous colic threads so see if that helps. Good luck with finding something which helps.

bagsundereyes · 05/06/2007 16:34

I forgot - you probably tried this but just in case - our wind up mobile buys just enough hands-free time to make a brew/have a poo/eat crisps when LO is quite tetchy and reluctant to be put down.

bakedpotato · 05/06/2007 16:34

can I just say, soon though 'soon' feels like a million miles away when you're in this bit DS will start to take an interest in stuff like squeaky rattly toys/mobiles/babygyms and you will get loads more space
is he worse when lying flat? could it be reflux?
totally agree with Slim, when you need a break, put him down, deep breaths, walk away for a bit.

motherinferior · 05/06/2007 16:38

Huge commiserations, sweetie.

This is the worst bit (well, one of the worst bits); you're over the euphoria of the birth, had the baby long enough to get really exhausted, and there's very little comeback. As the lovely Mizpotato says, it will improve. It really will. In the meantime, hang on by the skin of your teeth.

CarGirl · 05/06/2007 16:39

if he generally does demand to be upright I too would recommend ruling out acid reflux and go to a cranial osteopath.

I had big dc and there is no way I could carry them around, one had acid reflux and never napped at all and pretty much screamed unless being carried outwards with my arm across her tummy - it was a very bad time in my life...............

gillhowe · 05/06/2007 17:17

My DS wouldn't lie down, would only nap if being carried (and then it sometimes took a while). He'd cry for hours in the evenings.

Everyone told me it was colic - turned out it was reflux. Might be worth thinking about? Other than that I can only offer sympathy and share my current mantra - I won't be doing this when he's 18....

madmarchhare · 05/06/2007 17:34

Im sorry, I think I misunderstood. I didnt realise that you were hardly getting to pee in peace. I thought you were trying to get into some sort of routine or something.

Although she is still very young and does want to be with you all the time because she likes it. You are a comfort to her. Not much cop for you I know, but it does get easier as MI says.

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 18:39

sorry phd, i meant teeny in age not size. small comfort, if i am allowed to say that. i was posting at work so didn't have much time to plan my response. just can imagine how tough and confusing it must feel right now for you. will try to be more helpful later after i put dd to bed.

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 18:46

try this

kiskidee · 05/06/2007 18:49

how to swaddle

scroll to the bottom to see diagrams

you can't swaddle to tightly

too loose and it will come apart

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