Have separate bf and bottlefeeding sections ever been considered?

[SamJamsmum]

I spend way too much time on parenting sites generally but I'm a relative newcomer to mumsnet. I joined a while ago but I haven't visited/ posted much. Apologies if this has been covered before but I'm curious.
Compared to other parenting sites I've noticed the breastfeeding and bottlefeeding board here has an unusual vibe. Some conversations seem to get unhappy relatively quickly and there is a real tension between breastfeeding advocacy and mums who formula feed who sometimes feel they are pushed on the defensive.
I just wonder whether it might be easier to support new breastfeeding mums if their threads weren't surrounded by some of these discussions. And similarly a mum who has chosen to formula feed and is seeking advice may not wish to do so surrounded by threads on breastfeeding advocacy.
As this board is a very popular one and there are separate sections for chicken owners/ forces sweethearts/ ebay, I wonder why it's felt better to keep them together?

Hi there, I have no obvious answer to your query... but will raise this point at next week's meeting!

I think it would make things even more divisive than they already are.

Plus things are often not clear-cut; mixed-feeding, mothers wanting to relactate, mothers wanting to change from breast to bottle feeding would have difficulty knowing where to post for the best support.

Yes it has been raised in the past - I suggested it myself because I was sick to death of getting pulled into arguments over the issue and felt that it would be better to be separated.

However, the general consensus was that they should stay together because, despite arguments between posters, mums could gain useful information that they otherwise would not see whether it was about breast or bottle feeding.

You cannot legislate for people's personal sensitivities surrounding infant feeding. What I have learned is to not keep coming back to the debate when it has got ridiculous

Segregation is never a good idea so I think the topics should remained combined because they both address Infant Feeding issues.

perhaps it could be changed to infant feeeding in the title instead of breast and bottle feeding then there wouldn't be this divide from the very beginning
cross fertilistaion of threads is very important I think as many infants are not fed solely by one method or the other

Yes I think it should be changed to Infant Feeding on reflection.

Of course there is a large group of mums who do mixed/ combination feeding but usually there is an aspect of their feeding practice that they want to talk about. I would have thought a mum relactating would wish to focus on the breastfeeding experience or a mum who is combination feeding but wishing to talk about oz of formula would choose bottlefeeding. I moderate on another parenting site and we have a permanent thread for mums who mixed feed to ask about any specific issues that arise but other than that they simply pick where they want to post. People do flick back and forth and it works well.
I'm not pretending to know this site as well as some of you obviously do I just have observed as a newcomer that the tensions on the feeding board are pretty extreme in places.
I just wonder how it plays out when a mum who is struggling to breastfeed wants to be encouraged and supported through a difficult time without comments possibly upsetting formula feeding mums.
Or how a mum who has chosen to formula feed from the beginning and is seeking support in talking to others about her choice avoids some commentary she might not be looking for.
Or how a mother who has tried to breastfeed but has been unsuccessful feels about some of the threads here.
I'm actually a bf counsellor myself and currently tandem feeding 2 children so I'm not someone looking to avoid discussing breastfeeding. I'm also not saying formula feeding mums are delicate flowers in need of protection. I just think if I was a ff mum I'd get a bit bored of being frozen in a position of having to justify my decision constantly. And I'm not sure pro-breastfeeders are able to express themselves without fear of upsetting others.

Good post SamJamsmum

I think SamJamsmum has got some really good points here, and although no system is perfect, I feel that having separate topics might help mumsnet do what it does best. Of course there would be times when you could post under either topic, but the same could be said for many other posts that don't neatly fall into a particular topic.

I think the upside of not confronting new parents seeking help with the breast vs bottle debate would outweigh the downside of not knowing where to post.

I think its a really good suggestion.

It's a great post and I whole heartedly agree with the sentiment. My only reservation would be that some mums, who've never really looked into the option of bfing, may well be encouraged and supported enough to try it and suceed. There have been several cases like this IME on MN and it's really moving when people feel they've been genuninely sisterly and helped someone do something they didn't previously believe they had the confidence to do.

Of course on the flip side of this, I realise that some ffs feel people should butt out and may get fed up at the perceived, and actual, evangelising which goes on.

I don't know anything about other parenting sites (I'm pure MN and have never strayed from the flock ) but I'm surprised to learn that the topic is more heated here than in other places. I wonder why that would be.

good point on changing the name to infant feeding andie

samjamsmum you have raised some really good points here, but I also agree that the topics shouldn't be separated; i have seen threads where someone on the verge of giving up was motivated into keeping going for longer; if they had posted in a FF section rather than mixed section then they might not have had the same level of support and encouragement.

I've also seen some pretty ugly stuff , and some posters getting very upset and taking some comments a little too personally. the problem with any internet chatroom is that you can't presume to know the personal history of everyone who reads the threads and unfortunately there are bound to be some insensitive posts and some over sensitive readers.

It's not just knowing where to post though is it? If someone is really struggling with breastfeeding and posts in the bf section she will get a very different response (rightly or wrongly) from if she happens to post it in the bottlefeeding topic. A query such as "I am really struggling with bf, thinking of giving formula, any advice?" could go 2 completely different ways, and lead the OP down a path she doesn't really want to go down, whether that is believing that formula is poison, or formula is as good as breastmilk (I'm exaggerating for emphasis, but you get the point). The only way to get the balance is to keep the topic as one IMO.

I also think that we'll lose a lot of expertise on one or the other if we separate them like that. It's incredibly divisive, whereas the majority of bf and ff MNers who get involved in that section of the board don't feel that way.

Spidermama, I too haven't ever really strayed but I do think that the reason MN gets more heated is because the threads tend to get more intelligent debate than other forums...maybe.
"I dnt no hun wat do u want 2 do?x"
(slinking off before I offend anyone else )

I am familiar with one site where that sort of post might exist but it's not one where I spend my time
From my experience of a board which is separated, the OP will usually post on the board which she feels is most suitable just as when we choose to phone a bfing mate versus a ff mate we know what we might get.
Don't underestimate FFers. It is very common on the board I have experience with to read a post like "I can see you have mixed feelings about this one. If you can manage it and you want to do it, bfing is the best thing for your LO so why not post on our bf board. I'm sure you can find someone out there to give you some more support. Or you could call a helpline.".
It's my experience that a ff mum is still capable of detecting a mum who wishes to bf and does not have some mission to get as many mums ffing as possible. Some of the most touching posts I've seen have been from mums saying things like "it didn't work for me, hun. I never managed it. But if you can make it work I think that's great. Don't give up unless you want to. Power to you etc". And that sort of post is far more likely to occur in an environment where people feel less polarized and on edge.
In the vast majority of cases people do post in the right place in my experience. However I can see how the mum who really was convinced to give up and posts on the ff board could potentially lose something. And it sounds as though there have been some special posts in the past where someone has been encouraged to continue.
Sometimes though there's something to be said for having a bf board free from discussion of formula and just focusing on bf. It means a 'tell me about aptamil'/ 'what kind of bottle should I use' post is not bang next to 'I've having a really tough time here and my nipples hurt'. Like a struggling mum in a clinic sitting on a chair next to 2 people chatting happily about SMA vs cow and gate.
I think you need to encourage a community where people are able to look beyond the obvious and where people feel less 'political' and then I wonder whether they may be more likely to put themselves aside and look into what's going on for the OP.
I'm not saying that this board does not offer excellent advice in tons of threads I just sometimes think 'yikes' and I wonder how this comes across to new mums.

As someone who FF both children after very unsucessful BF I am gutted that I didn't find Mumsnet sooner as I think it may have enabled me to make it work.

With this experience in mind, I agree with SamJamsmum that on a FF section I would always encorage someone to stick with BF if they could and would be happy to tell them how much I regret giving up. I think most people would say 'why don't you post in the BF section?' However, if I have another child I am now unable to breastfeed (surgery) so it would be nice to have a FF section where I wouldn't feel so guilty.

I vote for 2 sections!!

Interesting. I've always felt that separating the boards wouldn't work, but you're very persuasive, SJM!

Would it be possible to try it for a month and see what happens? [technological idiot] A month would give us plenty of time to see how the standard fights discussions are going.

I'm a ff mum and from my experience (not just on this site) it doesn't make a blind bit of notice to put in your op that you don't want to get into the bf/ff row and that you have genuine q's or concerns that you'd like answered by another ff mum, you will still always get that same old opinion pushed at you, that as you've chosen to ff you don't want/need to hear.
It has def stopped me posting q's about ff.
I think it's a great idea to have them split and those who mix can be anywhere

But, littleboyblue, are you suggesting that breastfeeders wouldn't be allowed to post on ff threads?

Because I would never agree to that - or to a rule that ff'ers couldn't post on bf threads. That's too close to censorship for comfort.

No no no no. I wasn't suggesting that at all, sorry if that's how it came across. I'm purely trying to say that if there were seperate boards, people might feel a bit more comfortable about posting and maybe there wouldn't be such pressure to try to convert IYSWIM.
That probably doesnt sound right either

Aha, no I see what you mean now

I think we'd always want to keep communication going between different feeding methods, but it might be a bit of useful context to look at where someone has posted something - eg "I'm really struggling with bf" on the bf board might signal that they want lots of bf help, whereas the same post on the ff board might signal that they've already decided to stop and they want advice about that.

But there'd always be borderline issues which could go either way, and issues which concern everyone.

Was just about to post that maybe I had worded that wrong again.
I was on a different site when ds was first born and I did start bf because we all know it's best, but I couldn't get him latched on. When at hospital, I asked someone to help me and was told "I don't know what mw is responsible for you, but it isn't me so I can't help you" I carried on trying and then asked for a bottle and was told I couldn't have 1 as my notes said I was bf.
Anyway at home, I still had trouble, the home visit mw told me as I had a big baby I probably wasn't producing enough milk anyway which I thought was load of bull coz my body would know it'd had a big baby.
So at 4am on day 3 I cracked open the formula.
I posted some q's on another site and had a bf mum tell me I was wrong to ensure that ds had something and I shouldn't have given up. I thought that was a bit strong as my ds was clearly starving
If there were seperate boards, the ratio of ff to bf might be different and you are at less chance of being made to feel like shit coz you decided ff was the way to go.
I was run off this particular site as these people "followed" me and everything I said I got the reply "why are you asking, if you really cared about ds you'd be bf"

Well, littleboyblue, if they were saying things like that you're well out of it! With friends like that...

I only know about MN so I can't compare, but IME people being rude about formula feeders very quickly get jumped on here (and not just by other formula feeders either).

What is more a problem is the grey area where one person's "helpful information" is another person's "attack". That's really difficult to sort out because how people read a post depends so much on their own feelings about how they fed their children and so on.

I would love to see those difficult arguments disappear from MN because they don't help anyone, but I'm not sure what the answer is - or even if there is an answer. If separate boards would help, I'm all for them.

SJM I agree with you to some extent, I have a lot of RL friends and there are lots of people on MN who ff for whatever reason but are fully supportive of bf or mixed feeding. However, I still think that on balance, posting in the ff section will get a different response from the bf section. FFers may be supportive but by definition they aren't bfing and so their advice will be skewed. Same on the bfing board - people on there are likely to have either bf with no problems, or worked through problems and continued bfing, so their advice will be skewed in that direction. There won't be a balance, overall.

"Compared to other parenting sites I've noticed the breastfeeding and bottlefeeding board here has an unusual vibe."

What, intelligent?

Seriously though - I think there's possibly a call for "Infant Feeding Support" and "Infant Feeding Ishoos" but I don't think the boards need splitting.