Concerns about racism

[PandoraSocks]

Hi there Mumsnet HQ

Many of us are concerned about the uptick of hatred, xenophobia and racism on the site over the past couple of weeks. Most of the bigotry is focused on asylum seekers. MNHQ will of course delete racism etc. if reported, but this has gone way beyond a few hateful posts.

Links below to three examples of threads which have descended into real nastiness.

Cheers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5385273-civil-unrest-whats-really-going-on?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5385914-do-you-believe-there-will-be-a-civil-war?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386073-to-be-so-fed-up-amd-disheartened-with-all-the-xenophobia?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Seconded. Thanks @PandoraSocks

I genuinely don’t know what MNHQ are going to do about the CITME board either.

These are all current news topics, the subjects of national and international conversations, but the problem is that SM threads are prone to being artificially manipulated.

Some threads seem to be heavily populated by the predictably entrenched views of the same trigger-finger posters, plus trolls and goady fuckers. Too many to report.

I suspect the only thing MNHQ can do is what they did in the runup to the 2024 GE, which is banish every single one of these to the Politics topic, where they get less visibility.

Or perhaps we could have a special topic called Xenophobia Corner?

I would be happy with an 'Immigration' sub forum where the same posters can have an echo chamber and I can hide it.

I recently complained about a particularly feral thread where anyone who wasn't racist was accused of supporting child rape and was told that it's a subject in the news and people should be allowed to discuss it.

Discuss immigration by all means but don't accuse all people from certain demographics of being predatory paedophiles.

It would certainly be helpful if these threads were routinely moved to Politics or News as they’d attract less traffic. There’s a handful of posters working very hard to spread misinformation and perhaps the guidelines could be revisited so these posts could be reported and dealt with.

The bigger picture is that this will ultimately damage MN as it will come to be known as a site tolerant of hate speech and xenophobia. Membership and advertising revenue will suffer as a result.

I agree, an Immigration sub form would be useful. Then those of us who don't want too see the hate can completely hide it.

The three threads I linked to are all raging again already.

I do think if MNHQ doesn't sort this, people will be less inclined to visit the site, other than the bigots.

Thank you @PandoraSocks. I agree that MNHQ need to do more to tackle this.

In particular, I would like to see MNHQ doing more to remove misinformation. I reported a post the other day which was left to stand, even though it was obvious that the poster was misrepresenting the data contained in her own source. No explanation from MNHQ as to why they disagreed that it should be removed, just a note that they were "taking a look" and a patronising comment that I should feel free to challenge the post myself on the thread. Which they would know I had already done if they had taken the time to look properly. I queried their response but received no reply.

There are posters on MN with an agenda who are very clearly trying to incite fear and hatred. I appreciate that MN is a big site and that it's difficult to police everything proactively, but when reports are made, they should be taken seriously. If the moderators disagree with the reports, then fair enough, that's their call. I'm happy to be told that they think I'm wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an explanation to be provided as to why they think a reported post should be allowed to stand.

If the moderators don't feel that they have the skills needed to make informed judgements about alleged misinformation that they can properly explain to site users, then maybe they need more training. At the moment, I think it's sometimes easier for them to turn a blind eye and leave other site users to do their job for them. It isn't good enough.

Maybe there could be a new rule where no repetition is allowed. Once you’ve made your point, you’ve made it. There’s no need to keep saying it over and over again. Like the ‘Just a Minute’ rules, but perhaps with hesitation very much encouraged.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves there is another posterposting inflammatory data that has been debunked. Or maybe it is the same one.

There are so many of them right now. I do challenge some, but sometimes I just don't have the energy.

An immigration sub folder is a good idea.

The lack of fact checking is worrying. At least on some threads / boards there's a reminder that posters aren't necessarily experts or something like that so don't rely on what they say.

I went on each of these three threads when I saw them but have avoided them now because they are hate filled cesspits.

I don't know how MN can let this happen. It reflects really badly on Mumsnet that this kind of hate is freely allowed to stand on their board.

I hide those as soon as I saw the titles.

But just wow

It is. That approach certainly worked with all the trans threads. Once they were all moved to Feminism the noise calmed right down - or became far easier to avoid.

They are appalling @zonder. I am staying off them now (having failed to do so yesterday!).

Hopefully they will fill up soon and be gone.

Shame we can't rely on MN to just remove them.

The problem with having a sub-folder is that it can all too easily become another corner of the internet where the bigots and those who shit-stir can have their mis- and disinformation proliferate unchallenged.

I totally agree, however, that this type of thread needs much more effective moderation, and soon.

I'm particularly disturbed by the now insidious far right rhetoric creeping into threads unchallenged. White genocide, Muslim takeovers, an invasion of fighting aged men, illegals, rapists, paedophiles and so on. There's constant repetition of dehumanising racist tropes that are allowed to stand.

I was very surprised that a recent post where a poster said all African men are letches and she doesn't want them in the country, wasn't deleted. That shows how far the window has shifted.

Worth posting short non committal posts to help it fill up?

I used to quite like the political chat on MN, used to be more intelligent than many places. But it's not now.

Problem with an immigration corner is that literally everything can (and does) get turned into a xenophobic rant by some people.

Agreed. Sadly, the more it is allowed to stand, the more it will drive decent posters away, and MN will just end up being just another far right cesspit that everyone else has abandoned. A bit like what happened to Twitter.

Yep. It is basically the Great Replacement Theory being given free advertising on MN at the moment.

I've noticed the Great Replacement theory as well as white supremacist tropes standing unchallenged. There's even talk of an uprising and war coming. We all know it's a race war driven by the far right. Today I saw a post saying that the men of Britain need to have the stones to do the right thing. There's other talk about the fabric of society breaking down and white people being a minority in a generation.

I dread to think what "the right thing" is!

Name changing only allows this kind of poster to keep posting. (Although thankfully not being able to change names on a thread at least stops sockpuppeting). But MNHQ have access to posters’ names and posting history - therefore deletion/banning should be easy!

However, we can’t just shut people down who have different views - and that’s where the difficulty for MNHQ lies.

I'm so torn, because part of me wants to just walk away from the site altogether if MNHQ are going to allow misinformation and explicit racism to stand, often without any explanation or justification.

But then I think maybe it's important to at least keep trying to counter it, trying to challenge, trying to report etc. Because some posts do still get deleted, and if we give up completely, then the site will just get even worse.

This is a loop that I've been round several times before, and I'm getting quite weary of it now. I don't think MNHQ is going to change tbh. So perhaps it is for us as individuals to decide whether this is the right place for us any more.