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Original poster

What is this ‘You might also like’ clutter?

16 replies

PalatineHill · 15/11/2022 14:07

Hi MNHQ. Please just take it out. Or let me opt out of it? It looks a mess.

If here’s something that I might also like to read, I’ll find it by using the search function.
These suggestions are just encouraging the posting of the same points on multiple similar threads, and that will discourage healthy normal thread death.

It’s really distracting to look at visually, I really liked the uncluttered ‘clean’ MN format compared to other forums.

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MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 15/11/2022 15:33

Hi everyone - thanks for your feedback.

This feature is primarily meant for those searching for information - if the first thread they land on doesn't entirely answer their question, they get suggestions for others that might. It's very much a work in progress - over time we'll be able to tweak it to make it more accurate - so telling us where you think it's not quite right is much appreciated. We have underweighted older threads in the algorithm but if it causes any problems with zombie threads, again, this is something that can be easily adjusted.

MNHQ

LilyMumsnet · 15/11/2022 18:02

Hi all

We've removed the feature on fertility and bereavement based on the feedback on this thread. Flowers

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 16/11/2022 13:55

Thanks, everyone! Based on your feedback we’re making some changes so that older threads are less likely to be shown. We’re also adding in more controls for sensitive topics and, after that, we’ll tweak it again so that older threads are less likely to appear in Trending.

MNHQ

LilyMumsnet · 17/11/2022 10:21

Hi all

We're sorry about that. We have removed Black Mumsnetters from the suggested thread feature now.

We're still in the process of tweaking this feature but we are listening to all of your feedback.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 18/11/2022 15:53

Hello everyone - just been having a read of this.

First thing to say is that we've been tweaking the formula in response to your feedback so that older threads get an even lower weighting that they did. That's caused some re-processing which is why it's not appearing on every thread at the moment - not because we've removed it.

We've also excluded some more topics as well as some types of threads/ key words. Thanks again for the feedback on those.

We introduced this feature because a huge amount of visitors to MN (around 50%) arrive from unbranded search (ie they type query into Google and end up on a Mumsnet thread); showing similar threads improves that experience, as it makes it more likely they'll find the answer to their query - and it's being used a lot so we do think it's a useful feature.

But we obviously don't want to make the user experience worse for those who tend to use Active as a home page. According to the data there has been a small rise in zombie threads appearing in Active since launch of similar threads (4% of Active threads are those not posted on for 6 months s vs 3% prior to launch, and 10% of threads not posted on for 30 days vs 6% pre-launch). It's clear from this discussion that some folks really, really don't like these older threads appearing in Active at all, so we're going to think about how we can address this - either via further tweaks in the formula, or by highlighting when a thread hasn't been posted on for a while and/or via a user setting for excluding older threads in Active altogether. We'll come back to you with an update on that asap. Thanks meantime for the input.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 18/11/2022 17:24

Beees · 18/11/2022 16:54

I don't like to cast doubt on your numbers, but you seriously are saying that the increase in zombie threads in Active increased from 3% to 4%, yet regular posters were complaining that Active was over run with Zombies?

Agree completely. I don't want to be a twat and say this is a lie but your data is not accurate, there is absolutely no way the increase was only 1%. Active was about 85% zombie threads at one point.

For the timeframe 13th-15th:
6 months: 94/2833 3%
30 days: 170/2833 6%
For timeframe 15th-17th (similar threads release):
6 months: 112/2924 4%
30 days: 304/2924 10%

This is the data. Are you sure you're not thinking of a different time frame? As you know we've had a persistent troll who was bumping zombie threads for a while?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 18/11/2022 17:26

Beees · 18/11/2022 17:03

Is this not because the Mumsnet search never works so people end up googling it with 'mumsnet' on the end to find things?

To be fair search these days is significantly improved but yes I think a significant amount of users do still do this, myself included, as we got so used to search not being effective.

Even this morning I used Google with MN at the end to search a specific query as its so ingrained to me to not use search. I didn't revive the thread though as there's no need and in the scenario where that one thread hadn't answered my query I just click back and then onto the next one in the Google search list, it's more accurate than a similar threads box would be.

Yes they do - that's why I talked about unbranded search.If you include branded search (ie including Mumsnet/ Aibu and the like then the % traffic coming from Google is around 70%)

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 19/11/2022 17:41

Thanks for all your feedback. We'll go through all the points raised - please bear with us in the meantime.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/11/2022 16:14

Hello again,
As promised on Friday, we've been taking a further look at the impact of the 'You might also like' feature and what we can do to make it work better.

The first thing to say is that telling us about sub-optimal results is really useful. There are nearly 1000 threads created every day on Mumsnet, about every topic under the sun, so creating an algorithm that gets it right every time is tricky. It doesn't just use keywords - it looks at context too - so, for example, a recent thread about Iceland the supermarket only showed in threads about Iceland the supermarket, not Iceland the country. But every time there's result that doesn't make sense, we learn a new user case and can improve the algorithm accordingly. So over time it will most certainly improve.

It's clear that it's a popular feature with some (there have been over 78,000 clicks on it by over 33,000 different users since release) but it's also clear from this thread that it's a pretty unpopular feature with others!

So here's what we're going to do about that:
First we've already moved the Similar Threads box so that it shows below the posting box, not above, for logged in users.
Secondly we've changed the formula for the Trending box so that only threads created within the last 30 days can appear in there
We'll will also introduce two new setting in Customise
One to turn off seeing Similar Threads at all and one which ensures you only see threads in Active that have been started within the last 30 days. We're aiming to release both of these changes in the next week or so. Thanks for your input and for your patience.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/11/2022 18:12

Itwasntevenblackpudding · 21/11/2022 17:27

@JustineMumsnet

How many of those 78000 clicks were from people on this thread clicking the links to get evidence to prove just how ludicrous the algorithm is?

How many of those 78000 clicks were from people who didn't realise that they were going to be taken to an irrelevant zombie thread.

How many of those 78000 clicks were from people just trying to post a reply to a current thread and getting caught out by the "new" box appearing?

Great news that we will have the option to turn it off, and even better news that we won't have to see zombie threads in Active.

Hope the person writing the code for this isn't the same one who came up with the algorithm!

Well - there are around 150 people on this thread, so given that 33k users have clicked on it, I'd say not many!

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 21/11/2022 19:21

Beees · 21/11/2022 18:16

Well - there are around 150 people on this thread, so given that 33k users have clicked on it, I'd say not many!

Sarcastic replies like this just make you look childish to be honest and don't address some of the very reasonable issues with the new feature discussed on this thread.

Ok that wasn't meant to be sarcastic - it was meant to be factual. So I'm going to leave the thread now as it's clear that I'm not helping. We'll make the improvements as promised and check in after that.

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 23/11/2022 11:09

Hi everyone - thanks again for all your feedback. We're dropping in with a quick update.

The following changes have now been made and released:

  • the Similar Threads box is below the posting box for logged in users
  • only threads created within the last 30 days will appear in Trending
  • there are two new settings in Talk Settings - one to remove the Similar Threads box and a second to prevent threads more than 30 days old from appearing in Active.
We'll continue to monitor results and usage and improve things as we go along.
MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 23/11/2022 11:59

Whinge · 23/11/2022 08:49

Having read up on this I agree. It would be great to see @JustineMumsnet and MNHQ respond to this.

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This is something we will discuss - thank you.

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 23/11/2022 12:02

Itwasntevenblackpudding · 23/11/2022 11:31

Are you going to actively publicise these new options so that people outside of this thread know? seeing as this thread doesn't even appear in Active

Thanks - we'll think about how best to do this. From experience, if people don't like something they'll usually tell us Grin and so we'd of course give instructions on how to change Talk Settings if asked. Site Stuff isn't excluded from Active discussions by the way.

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 23/11/2022 12:21

@Itwasntevenblackpudding - I've been singing The Cranberries for a solid week. Great song though tbf.

MNHQ

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 24/11/2022 16:53

Hello everyone - just to be absolutely clear - we haven’t taken threads older than 30 days out of Active - we’ve enabled individual users to apply this setting to their account.

So far only a very very small number of users have done this. We would definitely want long running support threads to be visible to as many people as possible - so we’ll keep an eye on this number, and the number of views these threads are getting, and if there’s a drop off, we’ll look at this again.

Thank you.

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