How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

[Ghostofasmile]

MNHQ themselves have displayed ignorance (at best) over the last few months and prejudice / discrimination at worst when dealing with certain situations.
For example Justine, the sites owner herself over the last few days has made some very ignorant and damaging comments about diabetes.
We have seen the same with many times with Racism too as well as low level disablism.

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be.

Post here if you would like this to take place. HQ need training and they need it fast.

'How about a campaign where the users of mumsnet get mnhq staff to take diversity training'. Sounds like issuing orders to me.

Oh come on, she was upset. Let's not pull her to pieces over the exact choice of word.

There's been a veritable avalanche of disability-baiting trolls recently and controversy over the response and people are upset.

Well it's her choice of words which made it sound like issuing orders!

I got the impression that all these threads hurling abuse at MNHQ were based largely on pulling everyone else to pieces over the choice of words.

I find these threads embarrassing. No matter what stance mn take on any issue, they'll piss somebody off.

Who exactly would be pissed off by a zero-tolerance stance on disablism? Anyone of value?

And if you're embarrassed by disabled people and parents of disabled children getting upset about disablism, I'm embarrassed for you frankly.

Well it's her choice of words which made it sound like issuing orders!

Well, like I said; feelings are running high.

There must be some way forward other than "Anyone upset by the disablism can piss off and dereg".

The worst thing is if HQ came along and said 'It's fine to have a problem with how we run things but stop bloody speaking to us like shit and accusing us of all sorts' (only much nicer obviously) there would be uproar from some posters.

On the many disablism threads there were arguments between people with disabilities and parents of people with disabilities about what disablism is and what counts as disablism. That is why MNHQ will piss someone off whatever they do.

Link to the offending post?

Manumission - the problem is that even people who do have disabilities can't agree what is "zero tolerance".

Take the word "moron" for example. To many, many, many people it's medical history is so far removed that it doesn't really "count" any more. To others it's a complete no-no.

Bit like swearing too - some people think it's disgusting and beyond the pale, some don't give a shit and think nothing of swearing in front of children.

You aren't on your own thisjustin

Milk, Nerr

You see, to my ears, the possibility of diversity training sounds like a really easy step compared to thrashing out exact definitions of disablism. That's partly why I'm so surprised to see the notion so opposed.

I actually think I remember HQ saying they were getting advice from a charity organisation about disablism.

I'm not 100% on the ins and outs of it but there was definitely something said about it on another thread.

Manumission - it's not that I'm opposed to the idea of MNHQ taking diversity training, I'm opposed to the idea that posters on here have any say in the matter whatsoever.

I agree with Milk, it's up to Justine and MNHQ to decide what training they go on. If they want to go on diversity training (or they may have already done some) that's fine but it's not up to the users of the chat forum to demand it.

Mistress

That's fab if it's true.

Nerr

Of course it's up to them. But we're at liberty to ask for things or suggest things. It's one of the best aspects of MN that they do listen to MNer input.

How do you know they haven't already been on diversity training and don't just disagree with you?

Interesting thread.

Would the users demanding this training then get to dictate what training HQ then did go on? 'No we don't think that training covers enough of what we think it should you need to do more'. I don't know enough about this to know if training is standardised across UK or not.

I think this has all been touched on before on previous threads, and it was established that they hadn't. But other posters have a far better grasp of it all than I do and I don't want to pose as an unofficial spokesman for the MN disability lobby just because I seem to be the only one here.

I'm sure someone will come along with a much better knowledge of what was asked and answered by who and when.

I think it's more a question of consistency - if MN needs to moderate, one would hope there's some clear guidelines for all staff to follow on when and how to intervene.

Queenbean said it well.

It doesn't matter what the purpose of mumsnet it when it comes to misogyny or racism. There are boundaries around acceptable speech in any public forum and it is up to the administrators to ensure that is upheld. Mumsnet have no problem recognising that on matters that pertain to rape myths, homophobia, etc etc...

It also matters if a forum marketing itself as a 'support' to parents becomes insensitive to those parents most in need of support. That's false marketing and is rather disingenuous.

Manumission, I agree people have always given HQ suggestions about how MN could improve and HQ have always been happy to listen.

It's just now people are starting to word things in such a way that it's not just giving suggestion anymore.

Rather than it being 'What do you think HQ?' it's now 'This better happen or people will be pissed off/It means you're racist or disablist/You're breaking the law'.

I tell you one thing I really wouldn't want to do MNHQs job. The utter shit that they get is ridiculous and uncalled for. On other forums half of the people on this thread alone would be banned.

HQ try and encourage debate of important issues that other places won't even let you mention whilst trying to stop some truly vile people from upsetting half the forum. They troll hunt so often they must go through a lot of wellies walking under all those bridges. They also often face a barrage of attacks in public whenever certain people decide that whatever they did wasn't good enough.

Look at how much abuse Justine has got for example. It's ridiculous. She was in a stressful situation and she expressed an opinion in a clumsily worded way. She apologised for any upset and explained herself. Some people agree with her stance and others don't. Those who don't appear to have taken it upon themselves to be judge jury and executioner. The thread is full of bile and hatred but yet she has let it stand so people can have Freedom of speech. I think she's fucking awesome for that alone tbh.

As PPs have said this forum is what it is because people are allowed freedom to speak openly and candidly, freedom to debate topics that may offend and freedom to swear. If you don't like it go elsewhere. There are literally hundreds of parent forums. Deregister and get on google.

HQ YOU ARE AMAZING!