How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

[Ghostofasmile]

MNHQ themselves have displayed ignorance (at best) over the last few months and prejudice / discrimination at worst when dealing with certain situations.
For example Justine, the sites owner herself over the last few days has made some very ignorant and damaging comments about diabetes.
We have seen the same with many times with Racism too as well as low level disablism.

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be.

Post here if you would like this to take place. HQ need training and they need it fast.

merryweather you are right. It's very much that!

I don't know enough about this to know if training is standardised across UK or not

In my experience, diversity training ranges from in-depth, intelligently delivered contextual and legislatively-aware thorough teaching to axe-grinding, inappropriately personal, overly emotional ranting tosh.

I wonder what kind the OP had in mind and if she sound perhaps link to the sort of issues she'd like to see covered.

I just can't see how everyone will ever agree on it.

Ie, the words idiot or moron. Each one is acceptable to varying degrees by each one of us. Some not at all, others all the way.

Where do MNHQ go with that? Delete every single instance of idiot ever?

Ditto with the phrase "beyond the pale" which was raised as being racist against Irish people and debated at length.

Where is the line? You say you want a zero tolerance attitude to these isms but that would include deleting all instances of words such as the above. And when does it merge from deleting disablist posts to halting free speech? If I want to use the word idiot surely that's my choice as I believe it's lost all previous meaning now.

Why do the wants of you or me trump over others? Who is to say what is interpeted as offensive?

I completely agree over obvious issues but it's not those we are debating on, it's the finer points and it's not enough to just shout that MNHQ let "ist" posts stand and demand them having extra training when these issues will continue to remain.

There's the rub Pretty for some training isnt about informing and educating it's not enough until everyone speaks exactly in rote with no diversity of thought and opinion!

I don't think Justine expressed herself well on the diabetes issue and she clearly isn't particularly knowledgeable about it. I also took issue with something she wrote in the FT about what women want from work which had more credibility, because of her status as the founder of this forum, than it would otherwise have done. I don't think she did a terribly good job afterwards of accepting that lots of women actually don't feel as she said we did and that she had alienated a lot of her users with her proclamations.

Having said that, I don't like the idea that any one of us has to be immaculate on everything all the time, particularly when having to speak in public or even on the internet. It all gets a bit close to internet shaming for me.

I have learned a huge amount from this site. I don't have any very close experience of serious disability for example, but I've learned a bit from the conversations on here. But I learn more when it doesn't descend into people claiming that a misspoken but well-meant word is "vile". It all gets a bit shaming and not helpful. I'd rather this site did not go down that route. That stuff makes me switch off.

Well TBF, 'beyond the pale' was a hellish debate but it's not something that needs settling as part of the disablism issue.

Just something as simple as adapting the principles of 'this is my child' for use as talk guidelines and starting from there would be a jumping off point.

This isn't just about disablism though - the OP talks about low level racism too. "Beyond the pale" certainly fits that bill. It could be argued.

Manu this thread is about diversity training so racism falls under that.

True.

However, if the recent brouhaha had been about racism rather than disablism, I doubt there'd be so many dismissive posts of the 'stop being demanding' and 'these threads are embarrassing' variety.

Well it all depends on the context doesn't it. As I say, we are arguing on the finer points of language so if the argument was entirely based around opinions of use of words such as "beyond the pale" then I imagine you'd get exactly the same types of responses, yes

I didn't think it was a thread about fine points at all.

So you think that MNHQ let severely racist and disablist posts stand without deleting them? I don't think that's true at all

surely it can't be a bad thing if they understand the nitty gritty of what is and isn't acceptable?
Who exactly decides what 'is and isn't acceptable'?

Yes, send them all off to receive Diversity Training, they must be re-educated in how we must all think. No-one must be allowed to deviate from this. Anyone who questions the group think must be shunned.

Nitty gritty in itself isn't acceptable.

Just saying

No queen, but there were occasions it had to be explained to them WHY it was disablist before it was deleted.

OR.. threads were left to stand by one HQer as 'educational' then another came along and deleted it with a 'whoops' apology.

Its that kind of thing that we're talking about.. some standard training might nip those kind of things in the bud.

No one wants cookie-cutter Hq'ers, but it would be nice if they were at least singing from the same hymn sheet.

So you think that MNHQ let severely racist and disablist posts stand without deleting them?

Erm no.

What inspired you to attribute that to me?

This sentence:

"I didn't think it was a thread about fine points at all."

So you think that it's a thread about bigger issues? Ie severely disablist comments that are left to stand?

"So you think that MNHQ let severely racist and disablist posts stand without deleting them? I don't think that's true at all"

They have tonight, despite more than a few reports. I know they're about as they're posting on the major love in sesh on aibu (hence my yabu post)

'Fine detail' isn't the opposite of 'severe examples' 😐

Stop putting (odd) words in mouth.

Which thread bishop?

That was my question Manu, not putting words in your mouth

Anyway, I'm going to bed so nice to debate and hope this all gets resolved

Do you mean the 'HQ are awesome' thread being the love sesh, Bishop?

I don't think HQ posted on that.

Why should MN dignify this with a response? It's ludicris