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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

No sat’s and gcse

28 replies

Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 09:05

My son didn’t sit his sat’s. And has been told he will have no predicated grades for his GCSEs because of this.

Why what how is this even a thing. What does a test he did five years ago have anything to do with his grade for gcse?

How do I go about finding out what his grade would be.

OP posts:
AtiaoftheJulii · 14/11/2018 09:17

None of mine did SATs. Two went to grammar schools who seemed perfectly happy to set their own GCSE targets/predictions, and two went to a comprehensive which seemed to find the idea completely confusing. I don't think dd2 ever had sensible predicted GCSE grades, but dd3 is now in y11 and her teachers have mostly given her their own predicted grades. It doesn't seem to have actually mattered in any practical way, other than being given a few blank looks at parents evenings.

Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 09:30

Do they use it for the mocks at all. If they don’t give grades for mocks. How will I know if he needs to work harder or get extra help

OP posts:
titchy · 14/11/2018 09:31

The teachers should be able to tell you how your child is doing and is they think he could be working harder.

physicskate · 14/11/2018 09:50

@Dontgiveamonkeys1350 this is how performance related pay is established in many schools. Do you see why this is a problem? Children don't learn in a linear path, but these 'predictions' (and the dfe) think they do.

Much more realistic to go by a teacher's assessment (even though they are still learning how the new gcse really works). Their predictions will be more accurate the closer to the exam your child gets.

Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 11:02

Will they do predicted grades for his mocks. If not how does this go about applying for colleges etc. Sorry. No idea about any of this.

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 14/11/2018 11:04

Surely you've had multiple reports and parents evenings up until this point to give you an idea? or has he just moved schools into a different system?

BertrandRussell · 14/11/2018 11:04

He will get grades for his mocks surely?
How have they done his reports for the last 5 years?

Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 11:09

Yes we have. They have been fine. Just this year they start adding predictive grades and he will not get it. I just don’t know if this carries on to his mocks.

OP posts:
ghostsandghoulies · 14/11/2018 11:13

Did he do any other tests like CATS when he started at secondary?

SATS are used at our school to work out the MDG (Minimum Destination Grade) which isn't the same as Predicted Grade. Predicted grades are based on assessments etc.

Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 11:14

He didn’t do any tests at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 11:15

Sorry. That’s why I posted on here. I’m not sure how this works and the school don’t seem to be answer any questions I have

OP posts:
RomanyRoots · 14/11/2018 11:18

My dd didn't do SATS and has never had targets or predictions.
I think we're lucky as they do have their disadvantages too.
GCSE results will be whatever they are, dependant on application and ability, and as you say nothing to do with an exam they took in Primary school.

BertrandRussell · 14/11/2018 11:19

Email his form tutor. Ask what grades he is predicted at GCSE. If it's a state school, he will have them.

Pieceofpurplesky · 14/11/2018 11:23

Predicted grades are worked out from SATS and a variety of other sources. The official grades the school are judged on include these. If he did not do SATs then the grades are just based on teacher assessment and are not official.

I can't see how your DS will have missed out on CAT tests etc if he was in school?

KeithLeMonde · 14/11/2018 11:24

Both the Government and various external agencies use national data to analyse how children performed at GCSE and break it down by their KS2 SATS grades. So they can say that, in average, a child who got 47 marks in the KS2 Maths test, would be likely to get a 4 at GCSE (made up example BTW!)

The Government use this system to measure school effectiveness. If, on average, pupils at a school do much worse at GCSE than students nationally who had the same SATS results as them, then that would suggest that the school are not performing well (that comes with massive caveats as the system isn't very reliable)

So your child won't have a set expected outcome, and the school won't be able to access information on how other similar children have performed, which can be useful to them in setting targets or minimum expected grades.

However, the teachers are seeing his work and should absolutely have an idea of how he's doing. They should be able to give a predicted grade if they want to - although some schools shy away from predicted grades as they can be unreliable.

I would ask for a friendly meeting with his Head of Year or whoever is in charge of assessment. Clarify exactly what it is that the others will have that he won't. And ask your specific questions: how can you know whether he's on track and is learning as well as he should be? And what information will he need for college applications, and how can you all work together to ensure that he has that?

TeenTimesTwo · 14/11/2018 11:28

Umm. There are predicted grades and predicted grades.

He won't have 'flightpath target grades' which say you got X in SATs so you should get Y in GCSEs.

But there is no reason at all why by KS4 they shouldn't be able to say 'Given your current attainment and your work ethic, we think you will get Z for your GCSE'.

Original poster
Dontgiveamonkeys1350 · 14/11/2018 11:40

Thanks everyone. I will email the head of year again.

OP posts:
AlexanderHamilton · 14/11/2018 11:44

Neither of mine did SATS.

Dd's school used CATS and got predicted grades which were wildly wrong so she ignored them and they were eventually replaced by teacher predictions in Year 11.

Ds's school don't do CATS. He has predicted grades based on a report from his previous school which are again wildly wrong so we ignore them. He did get on track for grades last year *year 9) but his first report this year didn't have those.

AdalindShade · 14/11/2018 13:51

The Government use this system to measure school effectiveness. If, on average, pupils at a school do much worse at GCSE than students nationally who had the same SATS results as them, then that would suggest that the school are not performing well (that comes with massive caveats as the system isn't very reliable)

In addition to this, I think it is really important to note that it is wildly inappropriate to take a measure designed to assess school effectiveness and apply it to individual students. Lots of schools are doing it, but that doesn't make it right.

greencatbluecat · 14/11/2018 16:25

The Government use this system to measure school effectiveness.

It won't make any difference to your DCs but it will to their school. Without the SATs scores, the school will not be able to produce an official progress score for your DCs, which is used for the data that has to be published in the league tables.

No employer or university is going to ask for your SATS scores.

It is all a load of nonsense anyway, because the primary schools manage to produce SATS scores in children that would suggest they are capable of, for example, a 4 or 5 at GCSE and when they reach year 7, they are found to have a reading and maths ability of (say) a 7-year-old. These children make the secondary school look bad.

AtiaoftheJulii · 14/11/2018 17:28

Absolutely agree with Adalind

And yes, as greencat says, my daughters' school were a bit miffed (in a light-hearted manner!) that they couldn't use dd2's GCSE results to contribute to their progress 8 score.

Acopyofacopy · 14/11/2018 20:05

If students come in without SATs results teachers at my school are asked to make up predict grades based on their professional judgement.

Why do you think your son actually needs predicted grades? I work very hard to get my students to ignore them and set their own targets.

whitecatsandblackcats · 16/11/2018 16:10

This issue is currently driving me nuts - DS just joined a school at start of year 7 and all his peers have flight paths and predicted grades and have been set on the basis of their SATS results. Because he didn't do SATS he has none of the stuff they have and the teachers have just thrown him in the middle sets for classes because apparently he has 'no data'.

I've had no explanation from the school about why my child's available data isn't being used to set / create flight paths / predict grades.

Soontobe60 · 16/11/2018 16:14

What is the reason he didn't do SATs?

KeithLeMonde · 16/11/2018 16:21

Whitecats

If your child has only just started in Y7, the school are unlikely to know enough about him to produce personalised predictions or flight paths.

What the other students will have, I am guessing, is info provided by an outside agency who have analysed the data for all students nationally showing average progress made from KS2 to KS4. They can then tell schools what the statistical likelihood is of a child with a particular KS2 score going on to achieve a certain grade.

If your child doesn't have KS2 scores, then those national average figures won't be available.

I don't think your child will be any the poorer for it. Just make sure that the school get to know him, get to understand his strengths and weaknesses, encourage him and teach him stuff.

There may be a danger of him falling off their radar because, without KS2 data, he won't count towards their headline P8 measure. It shouldn't happen but it can. You might need to keep asking questions to ensure that they are tracking him just as carefully as the others.