Tips for grey rocking MIL

[Lovemelovemycats]

My eldest DD (teen) and I are effectively NC with my ILs apart from one annual family celebration which is rapidly approaching. DD1 is the IL's family scapegoat but DD2 is the golden girl. MIL is polite on the surface but actually hates me and in the past has tried to turn DH against me. My plan is to grey rock MIL as much as I can.

MIL has (IMO) traits of covert narcissism. She has a saviour complex and spends a lot of time interacting with a "poor you!" attitude. She will be polite, but intrusive and nosy. I'm not receptive to being patronised in that way.

Since we last saw them, my mum, who I was very close to, has died. My dad's not been on the scene for years now, so this was a big deal in my life.

MIL is likely to ask lots of questions about my mum, me and the funeral etc. She is known for giving people the third degree about anything she wants to talk about. This will be dressed up as fake concern for my welfare.

Can anyone help me come up with some phrases to give as polite answers but that firmly shut down any drama or her getting into "oh you poor thing, that must have been so difficult for you"?

(I don't want to involve DH. He's a bit of a wet wipe and is very close to MIL. If there's an argument he will try to mediate between us, but he will mostly let me get on with her - or not - to the extent that I want.)

Why are you going?

'When I'm ready to talk about it, I'll let you know' might be something you could say. Polite and non-committal. Mind you, if she starts her tricks on your DD1, you have my full permission to go apeshit at her.

'Oh, I won't bore you with the details' and walk away or change the subject.

My “D”M is similar. I keep a mental list of things to ask her about her life. It does help that she loves to talk about herself.

So you could try something like “oh let’s not drag down the mood in this lovely day, how are you MIL and tell me all about your holiday/birthday/operation/best friend.

It usually works on my DM. Once I’ve directed the conversation for long enough, it’s usually time to go and it will dawn on her later that I actually haven’t told her anything.

She also likes a Golden Child/Evil Daughter dynamic but she usually saves it for me and my DSis. Not sure how I would react if she tried that shit on my DC

Nah, fuck that. I wouldn't go. Nor expose my kids to that

This.

Keep both your children away from her before she destroys the relationship between them.

If she’s as bad as you say, don’t go. Why would you put yourself or your dd through it?

Does your husband really not care, not even about his daughter? That’s awful.

My going or not depends entirely on what DD1 wants to go. If she chooses to go, I will too. If she doesn't, I'll stay at home with her. I'm not sure she's made a decision yet. In previous years she's always gone to this event but there have been more issues crop up wih PIL since the last one, so I don't know. She sees the PILs' behaviour very clearly and is good at making considered decisions.

DH is very enmeshed with them, and has become more so over time. DD2 (also teen) likes spending time with them despite understanding some of the toxic dynamics, and DH wants to facilitate what he sees as a positive relationship between them and DD2. His own upbringing was so dysfunctional that I don't think he can appreciate just how messed up the situation is.

Unpleasantness with DD1 thankfully goes on behind her back, not face to face. I think MIL is quite wary of her because she has realised that DD1 simply can't be controlled by her.

I hate people saying men are enmeshed with their family- why wouldn’t they be? Dh could say I was enmeshed with my family or I could say the same of him- they’re your family, you don’t at any point just want to stop being around them or talking to them about what’s going on in life!! I think if you don’t go then if anything comes up just compliment her to change the subject/ ask her about something to do with her etc etc.

I think enmeshment is an abnormally close emotional relationship which erodes personal boundaries and autonomy. Not the same as closeness. In a close relationship, people can disagree but still respect each other's choices. In an enmeshed relationship there is often a controlling dynamic and an expectation that the child will do everything the parent wants, even in relation to things that are none of the parents' business.

Honestly maybe that’s true or maybe he asks for advice/ tells her stuff and she gives her opinion. My mum regularly tells me how she did things as does his mum a and gives advice That’s just life and you’ll be the same with your kids as I’m starting to be with mine too- life lessons that come out as ye chat (although they’re younger and the eldest is single)

I saw your post before you edited it.

The reason a person typically makes one agreement with one person and then changes their mind later is because they were never comfortable with the original agreement.

That doesnt mean to say that they haven't been railroaded again by someone else because some people really struggle to set boundaries.

And that's the thing. If you think your husband has been trampled by controlling parents, it is very likely he chose a partner who does the same thing because that's what they know as "love".

When you think he "doesn't see" the problem until you point it out, that is likely just him appeasing you when he feels under pressure from you. So basically, he ends up spending a lot of his life just trying to escape the relentless immediate pressure from the people around him by saying or doing anything that will just satisfy them for the moment.

@LexibletheflexibleThanks, that's helpful food for thought. I deleted the second part of my post as I'm trying not to be too outing - I have friends on MN who I wouldn't want to know all the details.

@Lovemelovemycatsat least MIL doesn’t live with you! Imagine her in your home like mine! But I have come up with a useful tool to manage. Say she’s directed a question at you, you just pretend you’ve not heard. Ask her “sorry, excuse me, I didn’t ….” Then train off and be like “oh my goodness, I’ve bloody forgotten to call back ….” Again trail off and walk out of the room as if you’re trying to find your phone. I know it’s a bit avoidant but does the trick when you can’t listen any more. Works a charm if your children are young too and you can use them to say you’ve forgotten to give them a snack, water, change of nappy…. ! Good luck, and condolences for the loss of your mum.

Exactly-very sensible point! It's scary how the same people who complain men aren't in touch with their emotions seem to think they shouldn't have a good relationship with the woman who has (probably) done the most for them; much as I love my husband, his mum's love is unconditional, unlike mine.
You use a lot of therapy words, OP. Maybe just be polite and try to see her questions as positive. If she means it well, fine, and if she doesn't, it makes no difference and don't give her rent-free space in your head.

enmeshment is a totally different thing than closeness. Can be absolutely toxic and split marriages

Sometimes it’s fun to take it at face value and lean into it. ‘Oh God, yes Marjorie. It was absolutely terrible. And then my knicker elastic went pop and I could feel my drawers starting to fall off. I had to clench my butt cheeks like mad until I could pop to the loo and whip them off. That’s me off the Magnums for a few weeks haha. Still, you know what I was really impressed by? Just how hard I could clench. I could have dusted your windows with my knickers’. And then swan off.

I have a mil who I would also describe as a covert narcissist. Like your dh, mine didn't recognise it growing up because he didn't know any different. It has taken a number of years for him to see how damaging her behaviour is, particularly to his dad who chooses to stay in a very unhappy marriage. We now only meet a couple of times a year and in neutral territory where she can't feel the power she has in her home. I organise it so that other family members can join if possible to dilute how much of a conversation we will have. Our children are not allowed to be left alone with her and I make sure I am also not alone with her. We meet up because my fil is a lovely man but he is not allowed to see us without her there. Can you make sure that you can always be near someone else (and your dd too) at this event? She hopefully won't feel she can make as many comments then.

I avoid answering questions I know are leading ('I hadn't noticed/ I'm not sure/ oh really?' type of responses) and will rely instead on providing generic updates about work (which she can't relate to) and one or two things the children have been doing recently. I actively avoid engaging where possible though and will tag on to other conversations with people around me where possible.

If she asks about your dm can you divert the conversation back to her and ask what she has been up to or ask for an update on someone you both know? Get her to talk instead? Maybe use a phrase such as 'hmm, I've already talked about this with x, but thanks for thinking of dm'. Acknowledge it but shut down any further options of questions, then immediately ask her a question that will hopefully get her talking about herself or someone else 'she's saved' this week.

I know how awful the build up to such events can be. You have my empathy here. Ignore those that think you're overreacting, it's intense and draining to navigate a true narcissist. I'm sorry you've lost your dm

I don't think he shouldn't have a close relationship with his mother.

The issue is that she tells him he has to do what she wants because she wants it in his parenting and in our marriage, especially where what she wants is the opposite of what I want.

And she has previously offered financial incentives to encourage him to choose what she wants over what I want in decisions that are no business of hers.

That's not closeness, that's profound dysfunction and disrespectfulness. It's both a MIL and a DH problem as he shouldn't be sharing so much with her or listening to her saying things like this, but she shouldn't be saying them.

I love that!

@schoolrundashsprintthanks, that's helpful.

I do think the "change the subject" suggestions are going to be a helpful way to go. I'm going to pre-prepare some things I can be proactive in asking her about.

Make a two bingo cards of the things she is likely to say and do - one for you and one for dd1. The first one to get to the end or who has the most squares crossed off by the end of the day gets to choose where you go out for lunch together later.

Or even just make it for yourself and reward yourself with something frivolous.

How is your daughters relationship to each other currently?.

None of you should be going to this family event and in any case it should not be your DDs decision whether you attend or not. You’re the parent here and your kids are relying on your good judgment. You decide not to go.

None of you should have anything to do with your husbands mother. Narcissistic parents become deplorable grandparent figures too and it’s no surprise your h is so stymied. He has indeed bring trained from a young age to put her first with he dead last.

She will continue to try and steal her golden child grand daughter’s heart and mind from under your very nose and in addition further damage the sister relationship your daughters have.

It is also not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.