How to deal with DC meeting OW. Feel sick.

[Cheesetoastiee]

2.5 years ago I started to suspect something was going on with STBXH and his colleague. We were together 16 years.

He spent that summer essentially convincing me I was suffering from paranoia and anxiety to the point I was on the verge of seeking medical treatment - he was encouraging of this.

The day the kids went back to school that September he wouldn't get up - I knew he'd been in car parks with her again after finishing work at midnight - but now it was impacting the kids I confronted him again, this time telling him he'd been spotted and he admitted he had been meeting her after work but nothing was going on.

We limped on until Christmas - he tried to sleep with me on that Christmas Eve, I declined and when I came down in the morning he had taken his wedding ring off and that was that. He moved out in May last year and immediately in a relationship with her (though again he told me March this year). After that, he tried to kill himself, claimed he had CPR that never happened, that he was sleepwalking through the whole event and it wasn't him who was in control. He was a PC at the time and someone, our neighbour I think, reported him to professional standards for his behaviour towards me, they would have heard him shouting, calling me crazy, making threatening gestures, financial threats. I wasn't allowed to speak at times, other times it was silent treatment for days. There's a lot more than I can type but it was horrendous mentally. Then he tried to kill himself again, more seriously and was sectioned under a section 2. I declined to pursue the investigation with the police because I didn't want blood on my hands if he did kill himself and felt like I'd be contributing. He disappeared for months then came back just under a year ago.

He's seen the kids fairly consistently since at our home, DD is not comfortable being away from me, now he has a birthday coming up and wants to take the kids to a meal to meet the women who ruined our family unit. I'm glad to not be with him anymore, so many lies came out after he left, lies about previous relationships, his family and friends. He's told horrendous lies about me to justify his affair, thankfully I have proof otherwise. It left me feeling like a fool who believed his it all for nearly two decades and I don't think I'd be capable of having a relationship again, I couldn't trust anything would be real.

His mistress is on the receiving end of his fantasies now which is her problem but it doesn't make it easier that he wants them to know her and play happy families.

I have always said to him that I wouldn't lie to the kids but I don't want to hurt them either. DC are 8 and 7. DD is very bright and asked before if he cheated out the blue, I asked her what she thought it meant and she didn't know so I diverted the conversation. She has a very, very strong sense of justice and I worry that down the line it would damage our relationship by lying to her now and letting her form a relationship with someone who caused our family significant harm. DC2 has SEN and wouldn't really understand the issue.

How do you deal with this as a person? How did your DC cope? I hate that this is my life, just feels neverendingly horrendous.

Gently, she didn’t ruin your marriage, he did.

and as hard as it is, you can’t dictate who he introduces the kids to in his time and you shouldn’t be asking a young child for insights.

What do you mean asking a young child for insights?

Pp are right, SHE didn’t ruin your marriage, HE DID.

And Age appropriate truth is your best bet here. You don’t want to lie to the kids, that will break their trust in you and you need to hold onto that like it’ll save you life.

when your Dd asks again, explain what you can, park what you can’t explain for now and make a promise to provide the answer when the right time comes ; when she’s old enough

I had an abusive ex, when he left my boy was 5, he asked questions but knew the answers” he asks me my daddy left. I ummed and ahhed momentarily and DS said “was it because daddy shouts at mummy too much?” I said it was

in your situation, when asked, I’d say that daddy and mummy promised to stay together when we got married, but daddy broke the promise and found another woman he wanted to be with. I’d make VERY sure to emphasise too that because mummy and daddy are not together anymore, this doesn’t mean anything about how much daddy loves them, that he loves them with all his heart. Also what he does and doesn’t do don’t mean anything about how wonderful they are as dds, that they are super special and very much loved.

my DS is 21 now, he knows who the go-to person is in his life, he knows who to trust and who to believe blindly… and it ain’t his dad.

make sure that you don’t make any excuses for him, don’t allow any blame to shift, just be there and support them and reinforce that if he disappoints them that it doesn’t reflect on them. Build their self esteem at all opportunities.

thats what I did. It’s worked for me, my sons self esteem is strong and he has an amazing sense of self.

It won’t always be this hard love. @Cheesetoastiee

I would explain as much as you can in a way that is child suitable. Daddy did something bad, something mean. Then he lied about it for a long time. So I’m glad he is gone. Becuase he didn’t treat me kindly. A man should always treat his wife kindly. There is never any excuse to be cruel.

But mummy and daddy are much happier apart. I hope he becomes a better person in time. But I will never get back with him.

I wouldn’t mention cheating specifically. The problem is him, not her.

Maybe if she sees him treat her badly she will come to some useful realisations for herself about her father’s character. Which she should.

“this doesn’t mean anything about how much daddy loves them, that he loves them with all his heart”

NOOOOO

dont do this!

for the love of all that’s holey please god, not this part.

NEVER tell children that an abusive man loves them,
He is clearly a manipulative nutbag who tried to drive their mum mad. Men who do that to the mother do NOT love the child. Make no mistakes.

Never ever ever tell children their father loves them if he is abusive. Even if it’s “just to me and not to the kids” (yet)
Do not equate men who behave horribly, with love.

This is so hard OP, but I agree with others that you need to stop blaming the OW. It's your ex who ruined your relationship. Don't lie to your DD but don't go into unnecessary detail either.

As someone who went though similar. And it was horrific still is.

its shit what she did, what they did but having kids similar age, I wouldn’t dream of telling or letting on about the affair. They deserve no matter how shit they treated you, to have the best possible relationships they can. As the alternative is it then being utterly unbearable for them.

When they’re older sure but as kids they are already going to be struggling with their parents separating. My ex makes up stuff to our kids and it results in them being conflicted and angry it’s horrible one parent has to decide to not do the same and I tell you no man can lol.

last Christmas the other women started stalking my socials and sending me seen once voice notes on WhatsApp, now she’s the crazy one and the cycle continues, that’s something you can find comfort in.

I also don’t think you should comment on how much daddy loves them. It isn’t your place to stress that and could be confusing.
You can tell them (as I’m sure you always do) that you love them.
Keeping things as simple as you can would be the best thing for now.
He sounds like a very difficult man. They will see some of his deficits in the long run. Focus on keeping your home - their home - a happy, safe space where they feel secure and loved.

It's awful, but they are both to blame. Yes, one person broke their marriage vows. But it's just as bad to sleep with someone knowing he has a wife and kids. I'm not saying women should be better people than men, but that anyone who has consensual sex with a married man is committing exactly the same wrong.
Now she is stalking you, have you notified the police if she's upsetting you/breaking any laws and endangering you?

I'm so sorry, OP. That's such a lot to try to navigate. I don't agree with pp that the OW doesn't carry blame - if she knew he was married, then they're both to blame. It sounds like the OW has ended up in a pitiable situation though, if she has to deal with him and his abusiveness. But no, that doesn't mean it makes it any easier for you, especially with your children meeting her.

I agree that it's not a good idea to emphasise to your children how much he loves them, considering how unstable and abusive he is.

I'd keep things honest but vague - at this age, if she's bright, I do wonder if saying to your DD that some things are too complicated and adult to explain to her just yet, might be better than giving her a story that misrepresents the situation? It's not an ideal answer, but you know your DD best and whether or not she would respond well to that, or poorly.

It is so hard, I'm so conflicted about what to do for the best. I also don't want DC to think it's ok for somebody to be treated like I was and that you just have to accept it either. I'm not wording it very well but I would like them to have better boundaries than I ever have.

I think it leans towards OW because I feel powerless with regards to Exh, he was cleared to see the kids so he's going to be there and I have to bury my own trauma on that front to be able to facilitate it for the DC.

Also, OW has not been pleasant to say the least. I did ask Exh to ask her to meet up and he laughed, said no that'll never happen she hates you.

OW also showed up unannounced and completely unexpectedly at a family event at DC's school before the holidays - in her work capacity. I had called Exh to remind him of said event about an hour before it and he said he couldn't make it but would see us after at my house. I walked into the event completely blindsided. When I asked him about it he claimed she had no choice and that he also knew nothing about it.

I would have to ask 'why does she hate me?' And what stories has he told her to make that happen? You yourself should stay as neutral as you can - I do accept that that's hard.

Also, she has access to your children's school in a work capacity? I would want to make that known to someone at the school then, just in case any over stepping takes place later.

As she doesn’t know what cheating means I would leave the question for now but say he cheated next time she asks.

A problem with saying it now is that she’s highly likely to repeat that to ex or ow and he may lie and say that’s not true. Dd doesn’t need to be forced in the middle at her age.

If she asks what cheating is then I would say having 2 girlfriends or boyfriends since she doesn’t need to know about polyamory or throuples. (2 girlfriends or boyfriends with consent)

Emphasising how much he loves them risks putting the idea that some adults don’t love kids into their heads. He needs to reassure and discuss that angle with them and it will mean most coming from him.

It’s a shit situation Op and very raw.

However as you say he is someone else’s problem. Also there is a whole step parenting board on here for a reason. It’s fucking tough. And that’s with a decent man. Not the knob your ex is.

I would tell DD the truth. Her father left you for someone else he wanted to be with. He’s still with her. You’ll always be her mum and dad will always be her dad. regardless of other people. I would also add that it made him unwell but he’s better now.
In another 5 years she’ll be a teen and able to have a say in whatever dynamic is going on then.

I think it sounds as if you have been through a hugely traumatic time and it's not surprising that you feel the way you do. I also think that this woman has done you a huge favour by taking your arsehole ex off your hands, something she is probably going to regret down the line! If he says she hates you, it's either because he's told her a whole bunch of lies about you, or he's just lying and trying to keep you apart so you don't tell her the truth about him!

Realistically, he is the children's father and if they stay together, your children are going to meet her at some point. You don't have to be thrilled about it (who would be?!) but for your children's sake, you want them to have an amicable relationship with her. Is there a court order in place for his visitation with the children or is it an arrangement between the two of you? I think it's reasonable to want to protect your children, given his erratic behaviour and unstable mental health. Whether that means you saying no to the birthday meal is up to you - if you think it will cause the children distress then you can absolutely say no. Just be careful that your own feelings (completely natural) of resentment towards ex & ow aren't impacting your children. They didn't choose him as their father and he's the only one they've got.

I think I see this differently to others and definitely ' you have no choice' is not right.
You have choice about who the kids are around.
So given what you have described, which does sound strange, why not give some thought to what exactly you feel they need in terms of adults who look after them and seek advice from a solicitor? You have nothing to loose by seeking advice. Just because they see their dad doesn't mean they have to witness another abusive relationship. Her situation is concerning but not something you have direct control over.
Because if you can see a cycle repeating itself- that's not good OP and where is it going. Her turning up at a family event unbeknown to you? .
The connection with the police makes me think you need very good advice. You are not being neurotic your instincts may be bang on.

You don’t discuss why the relationship broke down with your 7-8 year old etc you just don’t you protect them from that stuff. My dad abused my mum and I was in the room next door mostly but she never came out and told us until we were adults and it didn’t impact or affect me I didn’t sit there and think my mum should of told me while she was in the depths of being harmed and neither should you. It’s not about point scoring it’s about transitioning your children into the next part of life for their dad.

you let him fuck up with the children you don’t need to encourage it

I agree with PP. Your DH wrecked your marriage and he chose to do so. Knowing how much of a manipulative liar he is, I am sure you can imagine the dreadful lies he has told her about you and your marriage.

It would be great to say she is of no consequence, but unfortunately if he’s in a relationship with her, she will have contact with your DC, and you have no control over that.

It will be better for you and for the DC if you can be businesslike about it. Don’t ask lots of questions about their contact time or about her.

Ride it out. She will find out who he is one day. 💐

There’s no court order in place, it’s agreed between us. I did seek legal advice last year after he came back from his disappearance and the solicitor said in court that they’d likely request a letter confirming he was stable and adhering to medical advice before allowing unsupervised access so I put that to him. It took him 8 months to produce the letter but he did. In terms of what he did to me, professional standards kept in touch for maybe a month or two and then said if I didn’t want to proceed then they’d drop that. The officer said the longer I left it the harder it would be to move forward with it. They were investigating other issues alongside me, separate reports from a hobby so I think they got the outcome they wanted in the end.

it’s not about point scoring, if it was I could have told them all the horrible things he’s done, that he was locked up in a hospital, that he wasn’t stable, the truth about all the lies he’s told them but I haven’t. To them he’s their dad and they play when he comes round.

it’s a toss up between hurting them with the truth and lying to them about something significant.

An age appropriate way of explaining it would be "When Mummy and Daddy got married we intended to live together for ever but after a while Daddy met OWname at work and decided he liked her better than Mummy, so went to live with her instead".

Try not to say anything that implies that he doesn't want to to live with the DC but leave him to explain his feelings for them.

Do tell the H/T or FLO if appropriate that OW came into school in her official capacity.

you wouldn’t even need to say that you could just say something completely in related to the other woman better yet let the man himself discuss it with his children and see how he decided to do that cause im almost certain he won’t go oh I don’t love your mum anymore so I did this with a woman at work xyz soz kids.

It's your exH fault primarily, what an awful man. He almost certainly spun her OW a web lies about you.

But I cannot get my head round the OW wanting to play happily families with your kids. You think she'd be embarrassed and appalled at the harm she has caused their lives. Imagining screwing a married man and then cheerily greeting his kids.

I have no respect for people who have affairs.

This seems reasonable to me. It's the truth in a reasonable way.

I don't know how married men who have affairs,.or the women who shag them, can live with themselves.

you would probably assume he’s love bombed her, potentially manipulated her and also talked her into it potentially who knows but he seems to be the kind of man that would do those things to get what he wanted