Dilemma - do I tell close friend what I think?

[mooopa]

Namechanged. Very close friend of mine that I've known since uni days has been very unhappy in her marriage for several years now. Lots of issues, big communication problems, resentment, friend often considers leaving the marriage. She recently told me that she and her DH haven't had sex in 13 years (since their youngest DS was conceived).

I'm as supportive as possible to my lovely friend, and just try to listen without judgement. But here's the thing - ever since I met her DH, I've suspected that he might actually be gay. And this isn't just me - I've had other friends presume the same on first meeting him (at parties or whatever if it wasn't immediately clear he's in a hetero couple with my friend) and even my own DH once asked me if I had suspicions - all this totally unprompted by me.

It's strange because I can't pinpoint exactly what it is about him. He's a little effeminate perhaps, but certainly not camp. It's more a feeling, which could be utterly meaningless of course. Friend's DH comes from a very buttoned-up, conventional English family. It would have actually been a huge stigma to come out growing up (he is mid-50s now). He's someone who is quite conventional and traditional.

Obviously I'm aware that this is NONE of my business, but my poor friend is losing her mind. I'd never dream of articulating these thoughts usually, but when she told me about the lack of sex, for so long - I just thought, should I mention it?

FWIW while she's unhappy, she's very fearful of divorcing - the financial implications, the impact on the kids - she seems quite paralysed by it all, but I'm wondering if it could help her somehow? If I'm right (and I'm well aware I could be very wrong), it's no wonder the marriage seems to be failing...

Thoughts?

If that many people have thought it, she already knows that people think it.

No

and that’s based on the title alone

Nobody wants to hear what people really think

What's the harm in trying to help? You wouldn't be saying it maliciously, so hopefully she will understand your intentions.

Support your friend, by helping her overcome her divorce paralysis. Speculation over her husband’s sexuality, is just that, speculation.

Don't voice your suspicions. You have nothing really to base it on except a 'feeling'. I would continue to support your friend and hope that she gets to a place where she feels ready to leave.

I can’t understand what would be gained.

So you say ‘are you sure he isn’t gay?’ and she’ll reply yes or no and then what? If she doesn’t want to leave the marriage, it’s pointless asking.

Nooooooo! Concentrate on the symptoms not the perceived cause. That would NOT end well for you. There’s enough to go on without throwing wild accusations out there.

No I can't see what good this would do at all to say this

You said yourself it was just a 'feeling'

There's clearly nothing to actually base it on, from what you've said

I don't really understand why you'd be considering saying it

Thanks for thoughts. I feel quite torn as I know how valuable a fresh perspective can be in times of crisis. My friend is obviously unhappy and knows the lack of sex for so many years isn’t healthy, but I think she puts this down to a number of things - babies/young kids followed by her DH often working long hours, followed by recent years of marital strain. All possible, but 13 years?!

On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to offend her. It’s possible she could be very upset the thought has even crossed my mind.

My instinct is to stay quiet, probably. I certainly wouldn’t ever say that others have shared my instinct….

@purpleme12 - well it is a feeling, yes. But a feeling that several others also have expressed (without any prompting from me) and then also understanding there’s been no physical intimacy for over a decade. Kind of adds weight to the argument…

And considering saying it because it might bring some clarity for her in a time where she’s lost and struggling. But it could also make things worse!

Well I didn't dispute any of that

But I still have the same opinion as I posted

It’s 13 years. 13! And, from what you say, the lack of interest in sex is one sided.

It is possible he is gay. It is also possible he’s got a separate life somewhere.

But after 13 years it is not feasible that she does not have an inkling of what might be going on.

Do you think she is possibly a little too reliant on your never ending support? And do you quite like the drama of it all? I’m sorry, that sounds harsh, but you’re never going to say anything, are you?

(Personally I would get a bit tipsy with her and ask if she suspects;if it doesn’t go well it can be put down to you both being a bit worse for wear.)

@ownedbymydogs - I love my friend and certainly don’t love that she’s unhappy. Tbh there’s not much ‘drama’ here, just long term discontent that has been going on a few years and has worsened lately.

I get tipsy with her all the time 😂but I’ve much she complains - saying ‘so what do you think about your dh’s sexuality?’ could be upsetting.

Don’t. It’s not your place.
She must suspect and what would you achieve by saying it anyway. She may even resent you over-stepping.

I can see you care a lot about your friend and are anxious about doing the right thing, but this is leading you to build this into a much bigger deal than it is.

The amount of anxiety you feel would be appropriate if you actually had evidence that he is gay, and we're not sure whether to share the revelation with her.

But you don't. All you have is the feeling he might be. There is no reason you can't say, in passing, next time she brings up the lack of sex, "have you ever thought he might be gay or bi?"

At which point she will either say "Yeah, it's one possibility...." and you can discuss it with her, and what she might want to do (like talk to him about it), but this conversation will very much be led by her.

OR, she will say "No, I am confident that this is not the case...." (And perhaps give some reasons why she is confident about this - or she may prefer to keep this private).

The point is, unless she lives under a rock your friend knows that homosexuality exists. So either this will have occured to her already, or there will be reasons why it hasn't. This is not going to be some grand revelatory moment when the scales suddenly fall from her eyes. (If you had actual evidence he was gay, that wasn't available to her, that would be different).

Giving her the opportunity to chat about it (if it is a possibility) would be a kind thing to do, so yeah, by all means raise it. I'm actually quite surprised it hasn't been aired between you both before, if she has spent a lot of time talking to you about lack of sex in their marriage.....

This is an example of what I mean. It can't bring her clarity because you don't have any evidence - all you would be doing was speculating. But equally it can't make things worse, because again, you don't have any evidence. You really do seem a lovely and caring friend, but honestly, this is really not the silver bullet you seem to think it is.

It's a totally unsubstantiated hunch that would occur to most people in a sexless marriage, and may not be true at all.

None of the emotional stuff changes the finances. They can’t afford to separate.

If I were your friend and I were in a position to leave, I might welcome the idea that my attractiveness is not the reason for my partner being unwilling to have sex with me.
She’s not in a position to leave though.
I suppose if she were able to have a frank conversation with her partner they could perhaps both decide upon consensual non-monogamy.
But there’s a lot of supposition here.

Depends how you say it. “You don’t think he’s gay, do you?” might be easier to hear than “Do you think he might be gay “ and certainly not “I’ve often wondered if he might be gay”. I agree with a pp that knowing it’s not about her might help her.

Given how unhappy her marriage is I doubt your suspicions would be the thing to take away the fears that are keeping her from leaving.

I do think it is likely that she would ask you if other people had said the same. What would you do then? Would you lie to her and say no, or tell the truth. I would be deeply hurt to learn my friends had been discussing that behind my back. Even if I felt sure it wasn't malicious or, perhaps worse, "entertaining" it would still hurt and make me feel suddenly very separate from those friendships.

Her marriage is unhappy. It doesn't sound as though it's purely unhappy because of the lack of sex either - so his sexuality isn't really the problem, is it? It might be the cause of one of the symptoms - and if they had sex sufficiently to conceive children then I doubt he's purely homosexual and he's more likely bi in any case. Saying 'do you think your husband is bisexual?' isn't going to help her achieve any clarity.

She needs help and support to leave, not endless speculation about 'what might have gone wrong/be going wrong.' Does she like to moan about her marriage without any real intention of ending it?

FWIW while she's unhappy, she's very fearful of divorcing - the financial implications, the impact on the kids - she seems quite paralysed by it all, but I'm wondering if it could help her somehow?

It won't help her. That's the long and short of it. The reasons for her divorce paralysis will still be there if she "realises" he's gay (and if so many random people have not only thought it but expressed it to you, OP, there's no way it hasn't crossed her mind). And despite the vague "evidence", it won't be a realisation, it'll just be a suspicion until and unless he comes out himself - a suspicion that will only add to her divorce paralysis.

What you should be doing is focusing on her ability to emerge from a divorce in a better place. We have no idea what those financial implications are - obviously being homeless and unemployable is a very different implication to "oh no we might have to live in a flat". But you should absolutely be reminding her that the impact on her kids of living in a loveless home environment and having that relationship model growing up will be far far more damaging than a bit of upheaval when they're little then, hopefully, amicable co-parenting the rest of the way. Though I guess as they're all teenagers now, there isn't any good time for upheaval any more? I would remind her that staying until they leave home can also be damaging for children. 18-year-olds who have to deal with their parents' hostile divorces at the same time as leaving home, finding their social and academic feet at university and having sudden access to all the booze and drugs they want is a bad, bad recipe that I saw play out too much at university myself.

Maybe it would give her some clarity if she knew someone else shared her suspicion?

Maybe she is being driven mad with the exact same thoughts but is telling herself other people would think she was crazy if she voiced them?

Maybe shes hoping someone else will bring it up so she doesnt have to?

One for the biggest worries women voice on here is how what other people will think; how everyone else thinks he's such a great guy when, actually, most of the time, other people have seen exactly what they do but have never voiced it because it's not their place to say.

It sounds like this marriage has been in trouble for many years but a lot of women don't feel able to walk away. She's trapped in a cycle of analysing and questioning but not making any progress. Maybe she just needs help to break the cycle 🤷🏻‍♀️

Maybe she'd stay and readjust her perspective/expecctations. Maybe she'd leave and find peace and happiness? Maybe she'd just be reassured that she wasn't going mad.

@BlueSlate - my thoughts exactly. I also really agree with @Ilovelurchers and @HoppityBun that if I ever say anything, it needs to come up naturally in coversation, be sensitively voiced as an open question and I'd follow her lead. I'd never want her to think that I've had suspicions for years and that others have said similarly to me.

Also for clarity, the reason I'm posting is that while I've had thoughts about his sexuality for a long time, and she's been talking to me about the unhappiness in her marriage for a couple of years, her telling me about the lack of sex was recent.

Thanks for all the thoughts. Whoever her DH is, I just hope she is able to find happiness.