Can a good relationship work when you dislike your partner's family?

[MiaRosexo]

Hey everyone,

I'm just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation to me where they have a truly great partner but the partner in question comes from a terrible family (in laws, siblings)....

To be clear, the family have never actually done anything wrong to me and this is where it gets complicated as we have not yet been faced with a situation where we have had to put proper boundaries in place or have a stern word etc. My dislike for them is more about witnessed behaviour and things that inherently do not align with me as a person - I've witnessed racist abuse (towards others in the street), racist language within general conservation, tonnes of swearing and bad language in front of kids, drink driving, drug use, constant gossiping and bitching, the list goes on. In terms of the racist language, my partner has so far never challenged them on this, I suspect he is fairly avoidant and feels very awkward which does make me nervous if future boundaries ever have to be made, however he has also admitted he should have challenged and at the time was shocked/embarrassed.

My main concern is planning a future and bringing children into this family, of course I can do my best to keep a distance however I feel as though that will come with constant anxiety and it sounds exhausting.

My partner recognises that they're not the most moral of people and he does keep his distance a little, however I know he truly does love them and has said he wouldn't cut them off (not that I have asked him to, as I know that would lead to resentment).

He is truly a great man (a lot of people who know us both have commented on how different he is!) and has said for the future he would always put our own little family first, I know I should trust him on this but the overall situation just makes me really sad. I don't really want to bring children into a family where i'm constantly having to protect them from bad characters if that makes sense! However at the same time, the thought of losing him breaks my heart and a lot of people have advised me to just push through and remain distant where possible as it's not his fault.

Has anyone got any advice or similar experiences, does this usually get worse with time?

Thank you x

'Ive witnessed racist abuse (towards others in the street), racist language within general conservation, tonnes of swearing and bad language in front of kids, drink driving, drug use, constant gossiping and bitching, the list goes on. In terms of the racist language, my partner has so far never challenged them on this'

From OP's above description of her partner's family's behaviour, there is no way that they can be described as 'fundamentally decent'

Their racist abuse towards people in the street is probably illegal. There is no 'benefit of the doubt' here.

No, you can't but you CAN draw boundaries that protect you and your partner. You wouldn't know them if it wasn't for him, and yet he has subjected you to their unpleasant behaviour without pulling them up on it.

He will NOT gave your back once you have kids, you will find yourself rowing about this again and again and again. He' will show you that he CAN stand up against YOU but he will never do the same with his obnoxious family.

And that family that hasn't done anything against you (now)? Once they realize you disapprove of their behaviour, they are going to cone with knives out. And your partner will take their side while pretending he agrees with you.

I went through this too. My H did actually stand up to his father about racist things he said, so I thought he'd stand up for us as a family.

Nope!

He allowed open verbal aggression from then against me to stand and tried to make it seem that I was unreasonable, I should bend, "They're MY FAMILY!"

Nice to hear that the man you had 3 kids with does not consider you as family.

Then SIL was openly aggressive towards my eldest and he finally said something to them and they turned on him. His loyalty should be with them, not "that bitch".

I cut them off from me and the kids, told him he could visit them as he liked. They were so unpleasant to him he stopped going.

It put such a rift in our relationship, we fought for years about it. It cost me so much time and anguish, what a waste of my life.

Had I suspected he would be like this, I would have dropped him like a hot potato at the beginning.

In your case, do NOT have children with this man. If he can't stand up to them now, he DEFINITELY won't once you're trapped in the relationship with kids with him.

My h's take now? "Dysfunctional family has an enormous grip on adult kids, it takes decades to grow up and climb our of it, and in the meantime you will really hurt and disapoint other people because of it. Because youre trained to believe that your primary loyalty should be to your FOO."

If he was in a relationship with someone who had similar views to those of his family, what would he do? Dump them fast, or relax knowing there wouldn’t be any future family tensions as everyone had similar views?

Point I’m making is to see if he is embarrassed at his family’s open racism (towards strangers in the street - really?!) because he knows your views are the opposite, or because he thinks they’re ignorant cunts. His behaviour is suggesting the former.

Thank you so much for this perspective, this is really refreshing to hear and I am so sorry you had to go through all that. This sounds very similar to my partner's situation, everyone in our lives always comments that he is the black sheep of the family. It really is crazy how people can turn out so differently to the family they come from. Also thank you for normalising not pulling people up on things - doesn't necessarily mean you agree however I think it is overlooked how hard it is to speak out sometimes - I too myself struggle with this!

Thank you very much for your post x

Wow this is crazy, thank you for sharing and I am sorry you had to experience that! Thank you for your advice greatly appreciated x

This is a great perspective and one I hadn't considered at all, and I'm unsure on the answer to be honest! Thank you x

What does he mean by 'come into harm', though? I mean, his judgement is already warped by his family, unsurprisingly -- he thinks vocal racism, drink driving and drug use is normal. He doesn't need to let one of his relatives drive your children somewhere after five pints to 'bring them into harm'? Why doesn't he ever challenge? Is it because he thinks racism and drugs and drink-driving are no biggie, and is paying lip service to your evident horror?

Totally agree - his reason for not ever challenging is 1. he says he's not actually heard the racism all that much because he's never really around so in his eyes it's not been a regular problem to confront 2. with the drink driving I guess he's more naive in the sense that as long as neither himself or I or our future children ever got in a car then it's their own stupid problem, 3. he would just always prefer to distance himself and keep himself to himself which he has always done - although I agree this is not the necessarily the right approach

You can help how you act as an adult though. If he is truly a good man, against the racism and abuse, he would walk away.

I have discovered some members of my family are hideous racists. I have nothing more to do with them, and have told them so. These are not close family members though, and I never saw it as a child. It’s hard to think this would have been the case if it were my parents. The rest of his siblings are like them, what makes him so different that he is totally against their views?

From The MSPs ‘If you tolerate this, your children will be next’

The racism, illegal drinking driving and criminal drug taking (and no doubt dealing), swearing etc YOU have tolerated to date.

Tell me about the bitching and gossip - because that’s where it will come to be about you (if not already) and your DCs.

Boundaries are impossible with these types - they are arrogant and entitled and will smash through them. How will you host a wedding, Christening, Christmas, birthdays with this lot? It’s basically NC and if your DP loves his family then this isn’t an option for him. You are not compatible unless he can tolerate very low contact. I can’t see pulling up a drug addled piss head on racist language having any impact on their behaviour although it’s appropriate for your DP - unless he is prepared to put in deadlines and consequences to his behaviour boundaries. If you swear, are shit faced, are using drugs, racist in my company I will leave immediately and you won’t see me for 6 months and an apology and commitment to not do / say x,y,z again.

You are dealing with people with poor impulse control probs due to subs abuse and enabling environment. This is their entrenched and enmeshed ‘normal’ - they are reactive, dysfunctional, abusive and uncouth. It’s not one of them - it’s a large seething mess. They will hate you with a gossipy passion for any challenge on this and it will hurt.

I agree on the bitching, although I haven't experienced it yet as i've very much always stayed on the right side of them, I don't doubt for a second I wouldn't be next!

We are now fairly low contact with certain branches of DHs family. I am the immigrant and some of them are quite happy to sit there bitching about foreigners. Ok that's your view and you're entitled to it, but I'm entitled to feel safe in my home, so some of them will never come here. I no longer accept invitations from most of them. I know it breaks MILs heart because she sees the best in everyone and these people have been in her life for decades, but if she won't challenge them, this is how it's going to be.

What's the relationship like with your family? Or do you have a really good network of friends where you live?

So sorry to hear you experience that and well done for putting boundaries in place. And yes I (we both) have a very good relationship with my family, and I have a few close friends!

Put some theoretical questions to him but make clear you want proper answers that you know you can trust for the future. Ask him what he would do, what his feelings and attitude would be in x y or z scenario with his family. You really need to know these before you commit yourself further.
Also, can you move much further away, so that contact with them is very rare?

We have already gone through these types of scenarios a million times together as a couple and I'd say most of the responses are what I would want to hear/happen but again the issue is just trusting words that don't align to current behaviour/lack of challenging now if that makes sense.
Yes we've definitely considered moving away but I thought that may actually make it worse in terms of visits when we have a child - if they're round the corner they can pop in for an hour, however if we were really far and they wanted to meet their grandchild I wouldn't want to be hosting all weekend, maybe I have an odd perspective on that i'm not sure!

He or you are minimising the racism issue here - once is too much - as any verbal expression indicates what’s what they ARE - it’s what they think, do and say 24/7.

Similarly with his drink driving ‘boundary’ what if these cznts kill or maim other people.

Even if the MIL did challenge them - then all they would do would zip-it (resentfully) in your presence - that’s who they are. Unless they can be educated during the challenge - then I would just walk from these types.

I don't minimise racism in the slightest, I actively hate it, I have just struggled speaking my voice around people I don't know so well, which I am doing my best to work on

But us it fundamentally decent to be an out and out racist, drug user, quarrelsome person who shouts racist abuse at others in the street?

Doesn't fundamentally decent lose any meaning other than “looks like a family member and is fine with people of their own race.” Like what does it mean to assert Aunt Mary is fundamentally decent when on bank holidays she joins a crowd burning immigrants alive in a hotel? Is it because she also makes great yorkies and offers to babysit?

Drugs and racism. It would depend on how your partner reacts. If he keeps contact to a minimum, calls them out on their nastiness and does not expect you to be see them at all, then possibly. But if he sees nothing wrong with their behaviour, it would be a hard no from me.

I have a ds who has a half sister and now a step mother who are toxic, spiteful and not safe. - think not using a car seat, leaving 5yo ds alone to be bitten by their dog, heavy drinking etc.

I managed to keep ds away from them for almost all his childhood but it took constant watchfulness to block their attempts to gain access.

Think carefully. You do not want such individuals being your children's GPs or having any claim over them.

Well you either walk or talk. Or both.

It’s that simple. Saying or doing nothing is complicit, enabling, indulging, condoning.

ouch but thank you for the honesty I appreciate it

But I think that you know that tho…? You are unhappy that your BF tolerates - but so do you and it’s made you uncomfortable - so you come here to sense check.

Be under no allusions that such a toxic, enmeshed, subs abusing family will only get worse as they all age - and you and any children will be negatively impacted either directly as a target or indirectly by their dreadful behaviours. They will be like a pack of dogs and turn on you - but you know this because that’s why you are still trying to be nice. They will not change except to get worse IME.

It's time to tell him you need proof he's capable of establishing boundaries. Tell him that you're uncomfortable with their behavior and you're as important as your future children, so tell him in concrete terms what needs to happen in future scenarios. As I've said before, if they don't stop after he asks them to, then you temporarily part company the instant that happens. It doesn't mean it's a permanent separation. Sometimes a pattern needs to be established so that they know there are negative consequences to their actions.

When I was a teen, I was in a 2 year relationship I ended because I would see he was a Mama's boy and that he would always side with his mother over me. She caused issues as I believed she was jealous of her eldest son's attention being diverted away from her and onto me. And I also think he'd learned possessiveness from her. It's good to always consider how your life will be affected by a potential spouse's family. Good luck and I hope your partner comes through for you.

"It's good to always consider how your life will be affected by a potential spouse's family."

And above all by your choice of spouse!

IL problems are extremely common on this board, ranging from domineering intrusive MILs who possessively hog the baby and force unwanted and dangerous childrearing advice; to FILs that touch you and keep "accidentally" walking in on you in the bathroom; to SILs that triangulate, gossip, undermine, backstab, and throw their drinks on you and call you a fat slag; to BILs that make misogynist and vulgar sexual "jokes" and go with your spouse on lad's holidays to sleaze places.

In ALL of the many "crap IL" cases I have read here and elsewhere, it is actually almost never the troubling IL that is the problem. No, the problem is always the weak spouse, who is unable to place boundaries against his dysfunctional family. These spouses will not see the bad behaviour because they're used to it, or they will ignore it because "That's just how they are". And they will expect you to do the same. They will also expect you to suck up your discomfort or sense of being betrayed or feeling unsafe with their FOO. Your feelings will be inconvenient, a bother to the spouse, so they will be ignored, dismissed, blanked, stonewalled, disregarded, and shut down.

The spouse is always the problem in these situations. ALWAYS. Add children in the mix, and you will find yourself engaged in regular battles where he might mouth all the right words to mollify you or get you to shut up but his actions will tell you something else altogether.

Choosing the man you have children with is the single most crucial decision you will ever make in your life. It is a decision that can catapult you into DECADES of battles and misery and entrapment and financial, emotional, and mental hardship.

Choose wisely. The writing is on the wall with this one. Read what the wall is saying. Put brain over heart here.

If youre still determined to go ahead with this man, read up on poisonous pedagogy and dysfunctional families and how they affect the adult children and how this spills toxically over into the life of the poor saps that marry the children.

Toxic ILs, and Toxic Parents, by Susan Forward are a good starting point.