Not Holidaying with DH again

[NomoreHolidayswithhim]

Year after year I’ve had holidays spoiled by DH and I’ve decided I’m not going yo do it anymore. From now on I’ll just book for me & DD and just go.

He seems to spend the whole time moaning or bring negative, lots of sighing, lots of tightness with money, anxious about everything from driving, packing, deciding where to eat/ go.

He does lots of sleeping, reading, scrolling or just critising my way of doing things. This time we drove to a campsite a few hours away and I told him I’d go ahead of him in my car & pitch the tent so his anxiety- therefore sharp/ disparaging tongue didn’t upset me on holiday but deciding to go in separate cars really upset our 10 YO DD for some reason and she was in floods of tears about it so in the end I had to wait for him to take 3 hours to get dressed and pack despite spending all of the previous day packing the main things like tents/ bedding/ clothes/ beach things etc.

When we got there I was reading the instructions for putting up the tent and had also watched a YouTube tutorial the night before so I could do it independently and because DH was there he said he’d help and I asked him if he was going to help to be nice. He agreed then started picking me up on when I was putting the hooks on the poles. I told him I was following the instructions from the tent bag and the YouTube tutorial plus there was no real pro or con to putting them on at this point and he continued to argue that this was wrong. He turned out to be wrong but didn’t admit it. honestly, he transforms into basically a dick when on holiday and I find it very disorienting and feel I have to protect my daughter from his moods.

He doesn’t help with things eg it took me ages in the dark after a long day on the beach to gather up all the things needed to take DD to the shower block and DH just obliviously read his book. Lucky him!

We’ve been together for 15 years and I have booked/ organised packed and unpacked every time we’ve been away and I realised this time that I’m unhappy with the way his personality changes on holiday and I’m just not doing it.

I now have to try and cope with him for the rest of the summer holidays and we’re only a week in.
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This.

I suspect your dd was upset because there was such a bad atmosphere and a lot of resentment building about going in separate cars etc. It’s really horrible being the child stuck between two parents arguing like this.

Do you always go camping? Agree with others that for many people that would not be considered much of a holiday! Do you discuss and agree between you what your holiday is going to be?

My autistic husband is exactly like this.
I go away with dd. Haven’t been away with husband since 2017 when I told him I would never go on holiday with him again.

All these people saying "well maybe he doesn't like camping" as if it's an excuse for being a miserable shitty disengaged arsehole on holiday. It's not.

If he doesn't like it, he needs to arrange something else he does like or if it's all they can afford or what it defaulted to because he can't be arsed to get involved in the decision-making, then he needs to suck it up.

Being on holiday, even if he doesn't like the type of holiday, he has a responsibility to his wife and kids to make the best of it and make it fun for them even if it doesn't suit him. Bloody hell.

It's not just about what he likes and if he doesn't, he can make everyone miserable. 🙄 No wonder so many men are so entitled.

If he's a reasonable person the rest of the time then I think there's something else going on here.
I'd hazard a guess around anxiety/OCD as well.
The procrastinating the change of mood, etc.
My DD was assessed by CAHMS in her teens and they told us she scored very highly around social and separation anxiety. She often struggled on holidays and by about the 3rd day was asking when we would be going home. Once we knew this was genuinely an issue for her, we cut family holidays down to 3-5 days max. Happier DD.
Later diagnosed with ASD and OCD too.
I have some sympathy with your DH as I don't really enjoy holidays either (fruit may not have fallen far from the tree) but maybe you need to have a calm and open conversation about this?
It's currently not fair on you or your DD.

I know this is a serious post but your first sentence tickled me!

It’s like there are a few invisible people in our family eg the version of DH when he’s anxious, the version of me responding to how he is when he’s anxious, the version of me that works really hard to keep my DD safe from the crossfire eg telling DH I’d go ahead and get everything sorted so he and DD could just meet me there and we might stand a chance of having a fun time.

As it happened, DD was really upset that we were going in 2 cars and when I explained to her that I did it so we could have a nice time without any arguments and so that daddy could leave if we wanted to stay on.

She was Just really emotional about it all and she’s not normally like that, then I said I’d wait for him to be ready and we could go in convoy then he had the nerve to pressure DD to hurry up eating her lunch because ‘we had to go’ she was shovelling pasta in through sobs and the only reason I’d had to make her lunch was because he had dragged his heels for so long in getting ready.

I told him not to pressure her, that we were going to be leaving very late anyway and 10/20 minutes more wouldn’t make a difference.

While waited, I went upstairs and cried silently on my bed, feeling guilty that DD had got upset even though this is what I’d worked so hard to avoid by, the day before packing the car, booking activities and the campsite by the sea and was so excited to tell DD that we’d be going to the outdoor pursuits residential centre that she normally visits with her school and loves for a day of daring activities. But it all felt tainted. I couldn’t believe it and lost all confidence. Is it me? Maybe I’m being controlling? Maybe I am destined to perpetuate the cycle of bad parenting I received? Maybe I’m moody,
maybe Im a bad mum, a bad wife, a bad person, that my desperation to give my DD the childhood I never had is making things
worse. I don’t know, I really went to a dark place mentally.

DD saw me crying and hugged me. I felt even more guilty that she was having to be the adult and she kept apologising for holding everything up which deepened my guilt even more.

We did end up having a great time while away and I mainly just ignored DH’s negativity and had fun body boarding with DD while DH slept, bought some lovely picnics and snacks, made hot chocolates at nighttime and DD and I watched our favourite comedy on my phone before bed, DD LOVED showing us the outdoor pursuits centre and made Me so proud with her fearlessness on all of the high ropes/ zip wires, climbing walls and air jump things.

I tried to feel some empathy for DH who was trying not to be critical of me and the pack down of the tent was a triumph in cooperation. It was like I’d done exposure therapy on him to broaden out our world because he is at risk at becoming like a house cat if he is never out of his comfort zone. He has bad allergies so has to wear a pollen mask all summer which must be awful in the heat. More guilt.

In couples therapy established that he can’t do talking because he withdraws and gets dysregulated by talking through things. I also learnt on therapy that he doesn’t like holidays “because of boarding school” so he wasn’t exactly having a lovely time either.

I just want DD to hear her dad being brave and saying somethings like; “holidays don’t bring out the best in me so I can’t go on them” just so she doesn’t internalise it and think of it as a rejection of her/ us as a family. He won’t ever be meta cognitive so it’s for us to carry and I’m just not anymore.

Im going to take her to see her grandad this week who lives by the sea and who is normal about what’s needed on holiday ie - fun, food, relaxation!

Anyway. Thanks for the advice. That’s the shit show of my life - happy holidays ya’ll!

For Gods sake leave this man. Can you not see the damage it's doing to your daughter? Poor girl.

From your description it seems holidays are the issue and separate ones are worth a try.

Sad to read of yet another person damaged by boarding school. You should not have to suffer because of it.

Agreed, if he didn’t want to go camping he should’ve spoken up and said so when the plan was first mentioned, and come up with an alternative idea.

I think you’ve both put far too much on your poor daughter’s shoulders here, she wasn’t just crying at the idea of driving separately but everything else, keeping dad happy, not provoking his moods etc.

She really shouldn’t need to be privy to this level of detail, that’s between you and DH to sort out, poor child :(

I feel so sorry for your DD. She is an innocent in all this. Both you parents need to do better if you're going to stay together.

Although I'd be out the door.

Are you both teachers? You said it’s just the beginning of the holidays like you’d be spending the whole time together? Is he unable to cope if he’s out of his known environment? He needs to understand that he’s ruining your DD’s holidays with his issues, not to mention putting a massive downer on your efforts. What would happen if you asked him to organise a holiday?

"deciding to go in separate cars really upset our 10 YO DD for some reason and she was in floods of tears about it"

For some reason? Your poor DD is stuck in between a father with anxiety who's behaviours changed and a mother who has absolute disdain for her father. You're both seriously impacting your child's mental health.

Eh?

The op was trying to find a solution to avoid her very difficult h from causing yet another holiday distress.

Read OPs later update, she totally overshared the situation with her DD.

I sincerely hope that you’re not with your h for the supposed sake of your daughter, a child who is being emotionally harmed here by the very people who are supposed to card for her. Both of you have forgotten about her instead concentrating on your own selfish ideals. What do you want to teach her about relationships and what is she learning here?.

And trying to keep her safe from the crossfire is impossible when you are all living under the same roof.

It would not surprise me if she went onto marry someone just like her dad and or needed therapy as you’re showing her this treatment of you and in turn she is acceptable to you.

Gosh Op you tried so hard to steer it in a positive direction and were blocked at every turn.

I had this experience in the run up to finally deciding to divorce. Honestly though I wasn't as capable as you sound, or I didn't have the confidence. I am very anxious by nature but I didn't want my children to grow up in the shadows (my ex-dh was even more anxious, and on the spectrum. We never got anywhere.)

To me it sounds like your dd would live a happy and healthy life with you, and would see her dad occasionally. Or, the alternative: my ex-dh married someone super organised and outgoing and it lifted him out of his regimented need for control and anxiety altogether. Meanwhile I married someone kind-hearted and laidback and quite happy to jump at whatever impulsive idea I have on the weekend. So, perhaps your dh might end up with someone that counteracts/suits him, and vice versa.

It sounds so familiar and so miserable, you're fighting together trying to achieve the same thing but in a sideways direction. You sound lovely and capable and wonderful, but maybe your dh has lots of great stuff going on too - and just the combination doesn't work.

Did it occur to you that your plan was to have your DD accompany her DF when he’s at his most abusive without you there to mitigate the impact? It seems to me it’s not surprising she got upset at the idea of traveling with her dad on her own. She was probably scared.

If it’s really just holidays that he’s like this then him never going with you could be a reasonable solution, assuming he’s on board with it. But your bit about therapy suggests it isn’t just holidays?

Whatever the reason for his behaviour, it is abusive and if you can’t stop it happening you need to leave - for your DD’s sake if nothing else. That sobbing through her pasta description is appalling, OP. If you don’t see how harmful that is for DD, then you have become inured to it and need a bit of a reality check.

Does DH see how awful he’s been after the fact? Does he ever apologize once the holiday is over and he’s back on “safe” ground?

Why can’t you have a conversation with your husband in a couple of weeks about how he found this year’s holiday (listen to that bit, you may learn something), whether he’d like to go on holiday next year, and where he’d like to go?

You need to discuss what you like and don’t like about each other’s behaviour on holiday and agree in advance on things like your approach to money.

It’s not reasonable to simply take your daughter and leave him behind, and it will upset her.

I would think that camping is a particularly stressful type of holiday given it’s very hard work with lots of scope for things to go wrong.

My husband used to get very stressed about travelling when the children were small, so we compromised on U.K. holidays until they were about 10. This isn’t what I wanted but it was the best way for the family to holiday. I think you need to work together on a compromise as well. You sound frustrated but he can’t change until he understands how you are feeling.

I do agree with this. It is not a fair way to treat a child and I strongly suspect the fault is equally split between both parents from the accusatory tone of the post.

Seems to me op is damned whichever direction she chooses.

One way, her h is a difficult dickhead. He sounds dreadful.

She tried to avoid him and her dd starts crying.

What an awful situation, op.

I don’t blame you for feeling despair.

You couldn’t berate me any more than I am berating myself.

I’m not not going to tell her why I decided to go ahead because she would have felt the tensions anyway. Pretending it’s all jolly normal would just be gaslighting her which I won’t do. This, sadly, is the imperfect reality of our family dynamics when it comes to holidays but good for you if you’re nailing it in all areas 👏.
Couching it that it was because her dad and I don’t work well as a team when doing things like putting up tents puts the blame squarely on us and hopefully explains the weirdness to her in a child friendly way.

I don’t disagree that it’s far from ideal to tell DD why I wanted to go on ahead but I knew that she’d sleep on the way there in the car and he isn’t disparaging towards her like he is to me so how he was with her was not a worry.

Your poor DD. Imagine how much she is internalising all of this and blaming herself?

If going to grandads will be a fun holiday that means your childhood was ok so you can’t grasp how she’s feeling. I had an emotional neglectful childhood, if not just neglect. it took me to my late 40s after a huge breakdown and therapy to realise this. I thought it was just me and my fault. All of it, every single thing from birth until adulthood I thought was all my fault.

it’s made me really sad reading your DDs experiences as I have endless examples of my own from terrible parents that should have divorced a decade before they did.

A divorce where your DD is not eating pasta whilst sobbing would be an improvement. I’ve had to eat hundreds of meals whilst parents or parent were upset or crying or there was tension making me feel so upset I couldn’t swallow and knowing if I don’t eat all the food on my plate it will get even worse. as well as my mental health problems I have food related issues as well.