Can't get past some stuff DH said in an argument

[lettera321]

Namechanged. Been with DH over two decades. Most of it has been good. Recent years have been a bit rocky - the usual midlife challenges.

A few months ago, DH cocked up over something that had a financial impact on our family. We handled it and moved on. Very soon afterwards, I questioned the validity of another financial decision - ie we'd just had to make a big payment out (his debt), and he was pushing to buy something else (for himself), and I said 'maybe we can't afford it right now'.

He reacted explosively, where he was shouted at 'when our kids have left home, we should split up, because this marriage isn't working anymore'. Once he'd calmed down, he was incredibly apologetic. Said he felt guilty about the money thing, stressed about some other stuff, blah blah. He said he didn't mean it and marrying me was the best decision he ever made etc.

Problem is, I can't seem to get past this in my head. Any time we have any degree of conflict, however minor, I come back to this. I tried to explain this to him and he was dismissive. He doesn't seem to get that I can't just wave a wand and forget what he said. I also don't know if I truly believe him that he didn't mean it - I don't blurt stuff out that I don't mean, however angry I am.

Thoughts?

I’m sorry OP. I was in a long-term relationship, 10 years, and once my partner mentioned how he was analysing his childhood and life and couldn’t be sure he’d want to stay in his job, house or even with me, it was like a switch went off in my brain. No matter how much he backtracked and changed his tune or how devastated he seemed when I ended things and for years after, it was over for me in that instant.
However, all situations and relationships are different.

I’m not sure I would get past a comment like his. Like a PP has said - it’s like that’s his plan in the back of his head. He must have thought about that. Sounds like it’s an option for him. And he’s decided not to go anywhere until the kids are older. I’d be worried moments of our relationship were being future faked. How would you feel if he does leave in ten years time (or however long until the kids go off to uni)?

I’d feel exactly the same as you do. I can’t remember ever saying anything I didn’t mean in a disagreement, we’ve never really argued. My ex used to threaten divorce, that along with a bunch of other stuff that made him an absolute bastard killed every speck of love I had for him, it’s fucking horrible.

I agree with PP, it's a weirdly specific plan that came out of his mouth. I also agree that he sounds rather emotionally immature. There are always all sorts of paths one can choose to follow, once one realises problematic things about your partner/DH.I suppose it depends how the rest of the relationship is.

I wouldn’t be able to move past that OP. Sorry that’s not much help. 💐

This business of saying stuff you don't mean in arguments. I went to therapy years ago, just after birth of DS2; I was stressed out by finances, but also insecurity about whether I could cope emotionally as a parent & husband.
Therapist asked me a question I remember thinking was pointless because the answer seemed so obvious:
"Do you think that things said in arguments are more true, or less true, because they've been said in an argument?"
I replied, of course more true - it's only when you're arguing that the real truth comes out, you're not trying to be polite or easygoing, the gloves are off.
She said, "So the things she says to you when you're rowing, you believe she 100 percent believes them?"
Hell, yeah.
"Ok, what d'you say back to her?"
This had me embarrassed: I didn't want to admit to some of the stuff I'd flung back at her. But eventually she wheedled it out of me. "What's the worst thing you've called her?"
Oh, maaan. I once called her a heartless bitch.
"Ok. Do you believe she really is a heartless bitch?"
Nooo! I love her. She's great, she just does my head in sometimes, she won't compromise, suddenly everything's my fault and I can't bear it.
"So sometimes things that you say in arguments are NOT more true because they've been said in an argument?"
Looooong silence. Ok. Sometimes.
"So might it work the other way round? Stuff she says about you, might not be 100 percent true? She might've said things to hurt you, because she was feeling hurt herself?"
You get the picture: it had to be pointed out to me step by step because I had never questioned my preconceptions. Maybe same thing's going on with you guys. You say you don't do this; that's admirable. He might have less control, and less emotional intelligence. Wouldn't be the first time, for a bloke. Maybe you're giving yourself a hard time about this unnecessarily. Sorry for mansplain if that's what it was. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don't think I've said this sort of thing in an argument but I've certainly felt it when everything just felt annoying and shit and like it would never feel better, so I can believe he didn't mean it in the long term even if he meant it in the instant he said it.

However that's not really the point. How you feel about it is the point and I can quite see that this would be upsetting and unsettling. It needs to be talked out so if he is being dismissive that's not good enough and you need to tell him that very clearly.

Do you have quite different backgrounds in terms of how secure your parents' marriages were?

I would never stay with someone who threatens divorce. It's disgusting.

Also, OP, I find it interesting that he got you into a large amount of debt, it gets paid off and he's immediately thinking of making other expensive purchases just for himself.

He's learned NOTHING. He's not sorry. He's only looking out for himself.

He just shown you he's never going to change.

My advice is o get rid of him now so you still have the time to rebuild and make a solvent life for yourself away from him. Before you end up struggling in your retirement when you should be enjoying yourself.

You've mentioned a few times whether or not he "meant it" or not, as you wouldn't say something in an argument that you didn't mean.

But you're treating whether or not he wants to end the marriage as some static thing, rather than a feeling he can change.

In that moment, he probably did mean it. He fucked up massively, is still embarrassed about it, and you've brought it up (in his eyes) as a way to win, to get your way. He's now thinking "Fuck, this is the way it's going to be now, every time she wants to win an argument she's going to bring it up, our marriage will never recover from this one fuck up, we're better off going out separate ways once the kids leave home", and boom, out of his mouth it comes.

He didn't want a divorce 5 minutes earlier, he didn't want one when he'd calmed down and come to apologise. He meant it in the moment he said it, but that doesn't mean it's what he actually wants. Pretty much everyone in a long relationship has at some point thought, "Fucking hell I wish I was single". The problem for him was that the thought crossed his mind mid-argument.

Thank you all for the responses. A lot of food for thought x

Actually I disagree. I think that in a bad argument, people say what they know will hurt, not what they believe

But surely you grasp some WILL believe what they say and mean it

OP, do you have any access to counseling through work?

I had a similar moment in an argument which made me question everything. Nearly six months later I was still hurting and it was shit.

I called the Employee Assistance Line and had two talking sessions with a therapist who just by listening and questioning put things into perspective for me and drew out what I needed to move forward.

I'd recommend it if it's an option for you.

I think it’s a rare person who hasn’t felt like splitting up several times throughout a long marriage. I certainly have but we’re still together after 40 years and things are good.

I think it was Gwynyth Paltrow who explained why her parents managed to stick together because they didn’t both want to separate at the same time as each other.

I think DHh needs counselling to sort out this extravagance - was his childhood poor, does he buy things to compensate for other things he thinks he needs/ deserves / he has it harder than you / his ?brother / his colleagues?
And someone for you to talk this trough with would be helpful too.

Some good advice.
I definitely think it was very specific, after the children are reared.

So he will stay while you remain the adult and sort shit out and he can remain the selfish arse he is.

Think long and hard about this.

Not a chance I wouldn't have a back up plan, and a secret fxxk off fund with an arse like that as a husband.

Every woman should have a fxxk off fund though.

Deep down… do you agree with the idea of staying together until the kids leave home and then splitting up? Is there part of you that thinks you are both kind of expecting to do this?

My now ex used to threaten divorce, throw his wedding ring across the room etc etc. He was a stupid nasty baby. When I eventually did divorce him, he was totally ‘woe is me’ about the whole thing.

In my experience it is easier being the only true adult when you are single than as a couple!! Good luck OP.

That is a good question
but one I suspect the Op won’t wish to discuss or even think about at this stage

This from Vimes:

He didn't want a divorce 5 minutes earlier, he didn't want one when he'd calmed down and come to apologise. He meant it in the moment he said it, but that doesn't mean it's what he actually wants. Pretty much everyone in a long relationship has at some point thought, "Fucking hell I wish I was single".

AND, of course, is this sort of thing happening too often? Me & DW have been together for 35 years now & if she posted any one of our big yearly arguments on MN it would get loads of LTB replies. Same is true for most people, surely. Point is, not to give hurtful stuff blurted out in rows the special status of "the truest truth, what he's REALLY been thinking all the time & he's still thinking NOW." Concentrate on the real issue of how you're going to manage money & debt. Christ, if we'd both acted on the worst things said in arguments, she'd be on husband no.16 by now and I'd be on wife 11.

Yes of course I do know what you mean and we've all (well many of us) have said very unkind things in the heat of the moment. But his response was quite specific, namely about the children soon to be leaving and the marriage not working any more. There's also a back story about him getting into debt and wanting his own way regardless. They've also been married for around 20 years which is often a danger zone, especially for men contemplating liberation after the kids are grown up. I'm not convinced he hasn't been at least fantasising about it.

No doubt your wife has started many a thread
and I suspect been told to LTB

I’m surprised the Op hasn’t been tbh

hardly sounds like a healthy happy marriage

If he had just shout ‘oh well why don’t you just divorce me then’ I could have accepted it was a silly response and him lashing out but the fact that he said what he said, to me means he’s had that thought in his head already. So I would be the same as you op.

Agreed!

Thanks again for responses. No, I wouldn't say our marriage has been enormously happy lately. We had many very good years up until this point though - but the past couple of years have been quite challenging for a variety of reasons.

One of the problems is how DH responds to stress - as evidenced by blurting out these words when he was upset. Whether or not he actually meant what he said, it was still very hurtful - and I am now struggling to get past this, however much he might have apologised/said it wasn't true.

This thread has helped me realise I do find him emotionally immature in general, and I need to think carefully about what this means - and if he can take steps not to respond to stress like this in future. If not, I don't want to spend the years I have left with someone who behaves this way! So thanks again for helping me get this clear in my head.